Chlorine vs MPS

[Gebo]

I’ll admit I tend to be an overthinker. The toilet paper has to go over the top. Only distilled water in my radiator and battery. Hot tub water chemistry must be perfect.
I still haven’t come to a conclusion concerning bromine vs chlorine but I’ll continue that journey in the months ahead. Right now I’m using liquid chlorine with CYA 30. I have watched 100’s of YouTube’s concerning chlorine vs non/chlorine shock. I’ve been falling asleep at 11:30 with my phone on my chest watching and trying to determine which is the better hot tub shock. MPS will mess up your chlorine readings. MPS doesn’t kill anything. Brian, the Atlanta hot guy, says he throws in a couple tsp after every soak.

I am slightly confused. Well, honestly, I am very confused. I don’t know my head from my…

My thinking is to add chlorine every time after we get out. Then I’m thinking of doing 2 oz MPS once a week as a shock.

Should I just scrap MPS? Why do some people hate it and some people love it? I honestly don’t understand why “I” can’t find a consensus.

I wish I could get this settled.

 

[ajw22]

• Biden or Trump?
• Vanilla or chocolate?
• Chevy or Ford?
• Apple or Samsung?
• Google or Microsoft?

Can you find a consensus in anything?

How is your Hot Tub water care working for you? If it is working for you then it is perfect.

Your hot tub lives in your unique microclimate with your local water chemistry and the body chemistry of its users. What others do should be of no concern.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Look at the facts -

MPS is an oxidizer and not a sanitizer.
Chlorine is both an oxidizer AND a sanitizer.
MPS breaksdown and adds sulfates to the water
Chlorine breaks down and adds chloride to the water
Sulfates, at high enough levels, cause crevice corrosion
Chloride, at SUPER HIGH levels, increases pitting corrosion
Most tub heaters are made of cheap steel or, if lucky, Incoloy (a high Cr/Ni content stainless steel)
Some people have skin allergies towards MPS
Almost no one has allergies to chlorine (those that think they do are often mistaken)
Chlorine creates chloramines which can be smelly and irritating
MPS typically only creates oxygen and nitrogen and it's oxides.

You absolutely must have a sanitizer in the water, that is non-negotiable. Oxidizers are important for destroying bather waste.

If chlorine does BOTH jobs, then why do you need MPS?

Hot tubs are places where breakpoint chlorination matters -




Don't get too worked up over the exact numbers and don't believe the number that floats around out there that you need 10X the amount of FC for a given CC (it's not accurate). Its the shape of the curve that matters. Notice that as you add chlorine, the amount of CC's actual rise until you get to a point where the curve bends down. Sometimes that curve will go back to zero and sometimes, like what is shown there, you will have a small residual of CC's that you can never get rid of. Those are chlorinated organics that chlorine simply cannot remove anymore. When one sees a persistent CC level like that, even when they have raised the FC to SLAM levels, then it typically indicates that a water change may be necessary. MPS can sometimes help to reduce the presence of those persistent CCs IF the MPS oxidizes the organics before chlorine does it's work. But all that really does is buy you more time with your "human soup" water ...

So ask yourself, is using MPS worth it? Is an extra few weeks between water exchanges worth the cost of the MPS and hassle of trying to figure out if the CC's you are seeing are truly CC's or interference from the MPS? If adding MPS is just going to create more work, not less, then what is the point ??

 

[JoyfulNoise]

• Biden or Trump?
• Vanilla or chocolate?
• Chevy or Ford?
• Apple or Samsung?
• Google or Microsoft?

For the record -

1. S.M.O.D. rather than either of those two idiots
2. Chocolate (soft-serve with sprinkles)
3. Neither - Toyota is a much better automaker and I take a Tundra anytime
4. Psssh ... seriously? Apple ...
5. They are basically the same and they are BOTH evil ... I like using Duck Duck Go or Brave ...

 

[ajw22]

1. S.M.O.D. rather than either of those two idiots

Politics discussions are refrained on here so we move on..

1. Chocolate (soft-serve with sprinkles)

Agreed. But all soft serve is not alike…

Home - Rita's Ice

Rita's Italian Ice is a restaurant chain, based in Bensalem, Pennsylvania, which sells mainly Italian ice, frozen custard, and specialty creations.

www.ritasice.com

1. Neither - Toyota is a much better automaker and I take a Tundra anytime

Honda vs Toyota and I buy Hondas.

1. Psssh ... seriously? Apple ...

Agreed but the rest of the world wants a choice.

1. They are basically the same and they are BOTH evil ... I like using Duck Duck Go or Brave ...

I hear the Arc browser is the new hot browser…

Arc from The Browser Company

Experience a calmer, more personal internet in this browser designed for you. Let go of the clicks, the clutter, the distractions.

arc.net

 

[bradgray]

You are definitely overthinking it.

FtR, I don't like bromine or non-chlorine shock.

It can be as simple as this: use a few capfulls of dichlor and then liquid chlorine thereafter with each use. When your water stops looking sparkly, drain it.

You won't even notice the water on your bill.

Or you can overthink it for the sake of extreme efficiencies but then you're bending over to pick up pennies.

 

[Gebo]

I don't like gray.

• Biden or Trump?
• Vanilla or chocolate?
• Chevy or Ford?
• Apple or Samsung?
• Google or Microsoft?

Can you find a consensus in anything?

How is your Hot Tub water care working for you? If it is working for you then it is perfect.

Your hot tub lives in your unique microclimate with your local water chemistry and the body chemistry of its users. What others do should be of no concern.

I understand the point you are trying to make. But chemistry is different. We can all have opinions of the things you mention. I guess I don't understand how we can have
so many opinions regarding chemistry. LOL

 

[bradgray]

I don't like gray.

I'm not sure if you're simply volunteering a fact about yourself, or if you're referring to my advice.

 

[JamesW]

I hear the Arc browser is the new hot browser…

The Arc Net will protect you from Boris the Animal and a Boglodite Invasion.

It was a gift from Griffin the Archanan.

 

[Newdude]

I guess I don't understand how we can have
so many opinions regarding chemistry. LOL

How would you like to add your chlorine ? Bleach, tabs, calhypo, swg ? A bunch of folks swear by each of them.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I don't like gray.

I understand the point you are trying to make. But chemistry is different. We can all have opinions of the things you mention. I guess I don't understand how we can have
so many opinions regarding chemistry. LOL

You don’t many chemists do you

Look, your hot tub, and pools in general, is not a chemistry set. The water in that tub is full of so many dissolved chemicals from you and what you add that you can’t really make any precise predictions about how it will react and behave. Sure, there are principles that can be applied but, at the end of the day, you just have to go with what works. MPS can be used but it’s likely to cause you more grief and hassle than just simply sticking with chlorine.

Your entire line of questioning is premised on the false assumption that there is one perfect way to do something and some set of chemical additions that will make the tub run optimally … sorry, that just not how it works. That’s why we stress keeping things simple and staying on top of the water chemistry with accurate and consistent testing. If you do that, the tub will be trouble free.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Politics discussions are refrained on here so we move on..

Agreed.

Agreed. But all soft serve is not alike…

I grew up on Carvel soft serve and Enteman’s donuts …. Mmmmmm

Honda vs Toyota and I buy Hondas.

Agreed that Honda’s are better made but they are too pricey for me. Toyota is a “good enough” choice.

Agreed but the rest of the world wants a choice.

Plenty of choices with Apple … black, silver, rose gold … they even have a limited edition purple.

I hear the Arc browser is the new hot browser…

Arc from The Browser Company

Experience a calmer, more personal internet in this browser designed for you. Let go of the clicks, the clutter, the distractions.

arc.net

I’ll give it a look … “anything but Google” is my mantra (sadly I’m stuck with Gmail).

 

[Bperry]

I don't like gray.

I understand the point you are trying to make. But chemistry is different. We can all have opinions of the things you mention. I guess I don't understand how we can have
so many opinions regarding chemistry. LOL

Chemistry, science, biology, history, medicine, engineering, everything else. Theres no consensus everyone agree on, except maybe the toilet paper roll orientation, that’s settled science.

 

[bradgray]

OP, I don't necessarily want to pile on to what Matt said but, given your earlier reply to my post, it feels appropriate.

Some of us are enthusiasts or hobbyists with useful experience.
Some of us have degrees in specific fields.
Some of us have built pools.
Some of us repair spas and pools as a career.
Some of us have years/decades of experience in the fields of maintenance.

We all come from different perspectives and this is part of the strength of the forum.

You may have thought I was being smart. So I'll be more clear - I've handled recreational water for over a decade. We service commercial, residential, water parks and the areas in-between. Specifically, the 300-some-odd acrylic spas under my care within the Vacation Rental industry would be in trouble if I didn't have some orientation with regard to rhythms and methods. Obviously we do more than I described during our service visits, but I was trying to make a point that it can be extremely simple if your sanity requires it to be so.

 

[ajw22]

I grew up on Carvel soft serve and Enteman’s donuts …. Mmmmmm

Agreed. However Carvel from the grocery store is not the same as the Tom Carvel stands were along the roads. Neither is Nathan’s. But Entermans donuts have stood the test of time.

 

[Gebo]

I'm not sure if you're simply volunteering a fact about yourself, or if you're referring to my advice.

Oh, it’s definitely me.

 

[Gebo]

OP, I don't necessarily want to pile on to what Matt said but, given your earlier reply to my post, it feels appropriate.

Some of us are enthusiasts or hobbyists with useful experience.
Some of us have degrees in specific fields.
Some of us have built pools.
Some of us repair spas and pools as a career.
Some of us have years/decades of experience in the fields of maintenance.

We all come from different perspectives and this is part of the strength of the forum.

You may have thought I was being smart. So I'll be more clear - I've handled recreational water for over a decade. We service commercial, residential, water parks and the areas in-between. Specifically, the 300-some-odd acrylic spas under my care within the Vacation Rental industry would be in trouble if I didn't have some orientation with regard to rhythms and methods. Obviously we do more than I described during our service visits, but I was trying to make a point that it can be extremely simple if your sanity requires it to be so.

You can either appreciate the advice and pick a method, or remain unsettled.

I would never insult anyone who is trying to help me. Forgive me if I upset you. Absolutely unintentional.

 

[bradgray]

I would never insult anyone who is trying to help me. Forgive me if I upset you. Absolutely unintentional.

I wasn't insulted. I was confused by the statement however, which is why I made a joke. It seemed perhaps the advice wasn't to your liking because it was so opposite the expected answer.

I just wanted you to have context that I wasn't being cheeky - we really do take a simpler approach with the spas. And I wanted to be clear I wasn't a rare or lucky homeowner - the core method is repeated in thousands of services every month across our two counties of UT/NV.

I should state a caveat though, that pools do require more attention, and our large facilities make us feel like they want to kill us.

For spas, the dichlor/bleach method is the most recommended here on TFP because it works very well. We did this long before I even found TFP. No one else in my industry uses liquid on spas for fairly obvious reasons. It's a pain for us to transport, and our techs have to use clear measuring bottles that they manually refill a dozen times a service day. We also have to enter homes for rooftop spas, so we have to stress about carpet bleaching. But it just worked better and was easier to manage the abused spas with it, so we built efficiencies around it.

We love spas - it's why we have so many!
I hope yours doesn't stress you out anymore than absolutely necessary.