chlorine, PH, test strips vs. drops

[linen]

What algaecide did you use (what was listed as its ingredients)? Algaecides really do not help with shocking, they work best when used as a preventative measure.

Sounds like you have decided to do the shocking process. Have you reviewed it lately: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/shocking_your_pool?

Just superchlorinated the pool with 50 or so oz pool bleach, plus some 50% algaecide, since the MA isn't helping the PH keep from bouncing up high, so it could be some algage hiding somewhere

I am pretty sure ph rise is not a direct result/sign of algae. Usually ph that is going upward consistently is due to high TA. What did your water look like?

When you get your test kit, you will learn so much more about your pool chemistry. Then you can do a OCLT:http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/overnight_fc_test and know if you have Algae that needs the shocking process (that black dot may be black algae). Also you can check your CYA level...that maybe why your get so much "burn off."

 

[filb]

I used this one:

http://www.aquachem.com/mp/v/index.jsp? ... mt=default

...except the one in their picture says "kills" algae, and mine only says "outstanding algae growth depressant" and is n-alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride 49%, and n-=dialkyl methyl benzyl ammonium chloride 0.2%

I know this algaecide doesn't have copper (at least I didn't see the word copper on the front label), but my swcg has a copper generation feature which I can use, but haven't cuz test strips indicated copper was fine. (I ran the copper generation for 2 hrs last night just for the heck of it, along with the load of bleach).

Yeah, so I know the algaecide is supposed to be preventative, not to kill, but as maintenance anyhow the bottle recommends using once a week... And a couple months ago when my pool turned green, this stuff worked overnight and the green was gone. I AM worried about that black "wart" on the bottom of the pool vinyl. So if you can recommend a REAL algae killer and an online source for a good price (that excludes Leslie's I think!). And I'll read over that superchlor procedure like you say...I did some time back but don't recall it all. Am looking forward to getting the kit. I just put in 8 oz more MA right now since PH looks about 8.0 or so. (AGAIN)

The water looks fine visually...no cloudiness, not green. I can't measure TA til I get the kit, but the MA is supposed to lower that too, and the test strips (all I have) seem to show it as in an OK range.

 

[linen]

I used this one:

http://www.aquachem.com/mp/v/index.jsp? ... mt=default

...except the one in their picture says "kills" algae, and mine only says "outstanding algae growth depressant" and is n-alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride 49%, and n-=dialkyl methyl benzyl ammonium chloride 0.2%

Algaecides are generally not needed for most of us during the season. Some use an algaecide only during winterization. If you do decide to use an algaecide, we only reccommend one, from pool school:

Polyquat
Poly[oxyethylene(dimethyliminio)ethylene(dimethyliminio)ethylene dichloride

The only algaecide we recommend using. Often sold in a 60% concentration as Algaecide 60 or something similar. Other kinds of algaecide have various problems, adding metals, foaming, bad smells, etc, depending on what they contain. Algaecide is most effective at preventing algae from getting started, and doesn't do very well against an active algae bloom.

I know this algaecide doesn't have copper (at least I didn't see the word copper on the front label), but my swcg has a copper generation feature which I can use, but haven't cuz test strips indicated copper was fine. (I ran the copper generation for 2 hrs last night just for the heck of it, along with the load of bleach).

Don't use the copper, in fact unplug the copper electrodes on your swg. You wont need it with a properly chlorinated pool. Copper can cause staining and turn blond hair green.

I AM worried about that black "wart" on the bottom of the pool vinyl. So if you can recommend a REAL algae killer and an online source for a good price (that excludes Leslie's I think!). And I'll read over that superchlor procedure like you say...I did some time back but don't recall it all. Am looking forward to getting the kit. I just put in 8 oz more MA right now since PH looks about 8.0 or so. (AGAIN)

Chlorine is all you need to kil algae, it is much more effective than other solutions. I suggest not doing anything else to your pool but maintain the FC level until you test kit gets here. Then post your full set of test numbers and we can go from there. Adding the stuff you have been adding may be working against you. No more algaecide! Don't worry we will help you through this, and if you follow the advice of this board, you will learn what, how and why you are adding thing to your pool. Meanwhile read through pool school including: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/defeating_algae

 

[frogabog]

Do what Linnen said. Seriously. He's got your back.

 

[filb]

Hey guys, got my Kit! Woo hoo!

I did a stupid though today and overfilled the pool again. I'm gonna have to get one of those clamp on hose fill things with a float switch that prevent this!
So.... after lowering PH twice today with acid (once before, once after pumping out the overfill) , here are the results:

TA=150
PH=7.5 (with Taylor drops; with my previous aqua chem kit=7.2 best as I could tell)
CYA=20

FC= 4ppm
CC= .5
so....TC=4.5

I didn't bother with the CH test as I don't think there's much I can do about that (very hard water here)

I'll now chk pool school to see what ideal levels are and adjust. I see right now though, for my SWG pool, my CYA is too low, and TA too high. I'll see if pool calc can tell me how much CYA to add. For TA though, I know adding more acid will lower it, but how much do I add? It will also lower PH but pool school says adjust PH no lower than 7.5. Another website though says use more MA to lower TA and then just bring up a low PH again with borax). Good plan??? Bad thing is I don't have any "Borax test strips". Is this really a necessity at this point as this is the first time I'm adding borax? Also, not sure about my salt level, but the Intex system usually warns about that so I'll trust it's okay (until I find some Salt test strips somewhere)

 

[frogabog]

To lower TA, you will use the acid to lower pH to ~7.2-7.3.

Then you aerate the water (make bubbles somehow) which will make the pH rise again. When the pH gets up to 7.8 or so, then use acid again to lower it back down and then aerate again to raise it. Do this process a few times. TA will go down a little each time and as it does, it'll take longer and longer for the aeration to raise the pH back up. The reason you're lowering TA is so the pH is more stable and thus, you'll see that it's harder to move with aeration.

Don't add borax to raise ph, it will raise TA a little and since you're trying to lower TA, borax is counter-productive. You don't need borate test strips right now. If you decide to add borates to the pool (see pool school - further reading) you might want to get them, but even then they aren't necessary. Adding borates is kinda like adding CYA. Calculator tells you how much to add to reach 50ppm, and then you can assume it's in the pool.

 

[filb]

My PH is at 7.2 right now. Regarding the natural method (bubbles) I like the idea, but I have nothing to make bubbles with. My one single inlet to the pool is barely 1.5 inch wide, and even if tilted completely upward, is not strong enough to bubble, only to make a bulge of water on the surface. Someone else mentioned a fountain before, but I'm not sure I can afford anything else right now...but I'll chk prices to see. I have a harbor freight submersible pump that I've used to drain overfilled water... maybe I could rig that up somehow, but it's pretty powerful, so might shoot up too high of a stream.

I have soda ash which would raise PH, but I read that THAT will raise TA too (bummer)

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

Borax will bring the pH up without the alk increase.

Scott

 

[filb]

Thanks , one day I'm sure I'll buy some "bubbler" or do a homemade one like I see on these forums (although that's more intimidating to me since they all seem to deal with either cutting/filing pvc fittings or cutting pool liner inlet holes larger, etc. since Intex inlets/fittings are all non-standard) so for now I'll give the borax a try.

This site: http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/hiphpool.html mentions adding it only a cup at a time ("on small pools"--whatever that means...I'm guessing mine is small as it's 5000 gals???? or else 2 cups for "large pools") and waiting 24 hrs before testing/adding more. Pool Calculator says I need 27 oz by weight to raise it from 7.2 to 7.8. Assuming by 1 cup he means by weight (8oz?) at this rate summer will be over before I get it adjusted!

 

[frogabog]

Borax does raise TA, which is why I suggested not using it in the lowering TA process. I'm pretty sure this is SOP for reducing TA.

i.e. - For my pool, raising pH by .5 with borax adds 8.9ppm TA. To lower pH from 7.8 to 7.2 with acid it would lower TA by 17ppm. That 8.9ppm the borax adds is more than half of 17 the acid reduces it by.

One step forward, half a step back every time the acid is added if you use borax. It'll take twice as much acid overall, but I suppose it's doable.

Try looking on craigslist, right now I bet a bunch of people are throwing away Intex pumps from pools that went green, broke, etc. Even paying a few bucks for a used pump would be worth it. See the link to the thread in my sig below, it shows how you can hook up a second Intex type pump to your pool. I use that second pump to aerate if needed. Last time I just stuck the end of the return hose up in the air and shoved a cylinder shaped object (a kid's discarded nose clip case) into the end of the hose to make it more fountain like. Like putting your thumb over the end of a garden hose, the water falling into the pool creates bubbles.

 

[linen]

filb, is the black "wart" still around?

Also, why are you in a hurry to lower TA?

 

[filb]

Frogabog, I'll chk your link on using a spare extra pump. I hear ya about the borax...I'm just tryin' to get this pool back to shape ASAP so we can enjoy the warm weather while it lasts. For now, I hooked up my Harbor Freight "submersible dirty water pump" hanging it tilted just under the water bungeed to the pool ladder and it's making a huge spray pumping like mad. Not the most stable. If it slips and tilts one way it'll empty quite a bit of water over the wall, LOL.

Linen, just tryin' to lower TA since pool school says ideal is 60-80 with a vinyl saltwater pool. And I figured my high TA was what was causing the PH to stay so high. But ya know? I and my wife believe the replacement drops we bought for our old Aqua Chem PH test were much brighter red than the ones we ran out of, and the colors we got measuring never quite matched the various color bars. So I blame the replacement drops. Maybe they came out with a newer kit with diff color bars than my slightly old kit. Anyhow, I have the Taylor one that came with my TF-100 so I've just been using that one the last couple days.

I measure today and my PH is still 7.2 and my TA is still 150. (I had put in 19oz borax yesterday) I just put in 10 oz more to see if it makes any change on PH.

That "Wart" is still there. To be specific, it's not big....it's like the size of a drop of water. It's black and the center looked shiny, almost transparent or clear or just reflective. I just used the brush, but not the bristles this time, I used the hard blue plastic end of the brush (that holds the bristles) and looks like I wore it down a little, at least it's not so black, looks brownish now..maybe I knocked the top part off.

 

[linen]

Since you ph doesn't sound like it is rising alot, I would just leave TA alone for now. Typically high TA combined with SWG causes ph to go high quickly. That seems not to be your problem, so let's not fix it until it is. I ran with high TA all of last year without a problem.

The black "wart" sounds like black algae, but I am not an expert in that. You could try a OCLT, to see if you are fighting organics.

 

[filb]

Wow, my submersible pump and the borax combo worked a bit TOO well.. I'm at 8.2 PH Gonna add acid to get it down. I'll avoid the borax now Frogabog, unless my cheap pump dies one day, LOL! Gee, what am I going to do with all these bad-behaving chemicals I'd bought... soda ash PH up, PH Down, etc. At least we can use borax in the laundry

Linen, I hear ya on the TA , I guess I can start ignoring it if my pH stays at a good level (once I get it down again)

Is, say, just a handful of bugs/dust/leaf litter scattered on the floor enough to cause algae, even if chlorine levels are fine? I'm gonna vac it out tomorrow...just curious... Vacuuming this Intex Above ground pool is a pain and takes forever, since the pump is too weak you have to move the vac slow, or else it won't suck up the litter. I had checked into the little automated vacs that crawl around the pool floor, but it seems any review I check on them on Amazon or elsewhere, people say they all either don't' work well at all, or only half-arse. (tip over or they don't cover the floor evenly, etc.)

About the wart, I hope to heck it's not black algae... I'd read other sites that talk about letting a chlor puck sit on top of such things (stains,algae,etc) until it dissolves, or rubbing it with a chlor puck. Or is one little puck gonna screw up my chemistry or eat a hole in my liner?

 

[Beamup]

Is, say, just a handful of bugs/dust/leaf litter scattered on the floor enough to cause algae, even if chlorine levels are fine?

No. Such debris will consume some FC, but as long as the FC level remains adequate algae can't get started.

 

[frogabog]

I would clean the filter before vacuuming, you'll get more suction that way.

Or check walmart's clearance section for a vacuum. I've been using the broom vac from Aqua Tech the past two years and am very happy with it. The Intex cartridge filters stink, vacuuming through them would be a task of futility. A toddler sized pair of stockings inside the broom vac helps a lot.

Now might also be a good time to look into the Intex sand filter, for next year. I run the cartridges now and always have, but I also run two of them 24/7 and one of them has to have the walmart brand/distributed by cartridges or my water is cloudy from dirt/particles that pass through. I usually have to clean that cartridge once a day because it catches the fines that the Intex cartridge can't. The pool is the cleanest when both pumps have the walmart cartridges installed but since they plug so fast, the skimmer stops working and that can't happen (I get a lot of surface debris). So I run Intex type in the skimmer, and walmart in the over the side pump. At least that's only one filter cleaning per day. I hate cleaning the filters... so wet! It's all highly inconvenient and very inefficient but till someone wants to hook up my sand filter with me... I clean a filter a day. Next season though... :~}

 

[filb]

This morning I checked ph and (the simple) chlorine with the lil' Taylor blue kit. Chlor was 2, PH was 7.5
I later checked the exact Chlor measurements: FC=3.5 CC=.5 TC?=4

I just vac'd and brushed the pool, am running the SWG for 1 hr to bring Chlorine up a bit. I just noticed what's probably mildew, all around under the lip inside the blue part of the over-the-wall skimmer. I put bleach in it and letting it sit til I can scrub it away.

Should this be safe to swim in now?

Thanks for the tip on the broom Frog. But the name "broom" makes me think you'd have to be INSIDE the pool to use it??? (unless it attaches to the long pool pole.... Yes the Intex filters pass some dust, plus I get tired of changing them. (I rinse, wash them like I saw you say you do in your other post) Otherwise I'd spend a fortune buying them all the time. I use this "all-natural" laundry detergent from Costco. I'm sure it doesn't have phosphates. And I started putting a splash of bleach in. There's always still some dark grime deep in the folds that doesn't ever seem to wash out. Either way I rinse them very well b4 putting them back in.

I'd like to get a sand filter setup, but since 'm leery of Intex since they're always out of stock on parts, and they use non-industry standard fittings/hoses, etc., I'd like to get one that is standard. If I got a Hayward, do you know how I'd adapt it to my CS8111 SWG platform (which has pump,filter,SWG all built in) ?

 

[frogabog]

FWIW, the filters never get fully clean. Like you said, there's always something left in the creases of the folds and at the top and bottom.

A dishwasher detergent soak does wonders, makes the rinsing out much faster. It doesn't seem to matter if I rinse it before I put it into the soup or not. Yes, the soup gets dirtier if I don't rinse it ahead of time but if I do I still have to blow it out with the hose again. So, the last few times I just dumped it into the soup and rinsed it right before I replace it. Same result.

I'm all kind of shortness... my arms go to sleep while I vacuum with the Aqua Broom (I soooo didn't get the name of it right, sorry!) but heels seems to help. I also never get into the pool. Well, I did last weekend. First time this summer. The vacuum comes with a really long telescoping aluminum pole, you won't need to get in. I find that it can blow debris around if I extend it too far from one side of the pool, so I do the middle from atop the ladder and then move round the pool to do the outer edges.

If you get it, there's a little black rubber flap on the inside. It's meant to prevent debris from falling back out. I have it tucked under so that it doesn't impede the suction, it works much better this way especially on leaves. If you take it out of the water fast enough while still running nothing falls out anyway. It's not actually pumping water but rather creating suction behind the debris filter, so you can run it dry no problem.