Cellulose Fiber Clear conversion

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Gary_PA

Gary_PA

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May 23, 2017
20
Furlong, PA
I know a lot of people ask about switching from DE to Cellulose so I thought I would share my experience.

The main reason I wanted to switch was that I did not like the idea of having to use a mask and gloves with DE. I also have to discharge to my yard and I have pets. When I was using DE I always got that same itchy feeling you get when handling fiberglass insulation. I do not want that on me or my pets. The peace of mind that I am not using a Class 1 carcinogen (when airborne) is nice as well.

So here goes:

I started by fully back washing my filter including bumping several times. I opened my grid DE filter and low and behold it was still filthy. Lots of thick DE all over. I took the grids out and thoroughly cleaned them. Took about an hour to get all the caked on DE off. Unfortunately I did not take photos of before but it was a mess even with back washing. Below is photo once clean.



I then added Fiber Clear cellulose through the near skimmer per the directions. 11 cups for a 60 sq ft grid filter. I run my filter 24 hours a day. I run it at 2,000 RPM during the day and 1,800 RPM at night to save a little energy. At 2,000 RPM my pressure runs at 9 PSI after I put the Fiber Clear in. I was able to run the filter for 2 months before my pressure rose to 11-12 PSI and a noticed a significant drop off in return flow. In my pool that is the same as my experience with DE.

I know a few posts said they had issues with the pressure immediately going up and having to back wash almost immediately. I did not experience any of that. I do not know if it is because I thoroughly cleaned my grids first, or maybe something else about my setup, but for me no issues. My pool is just as clear if not clearer now using cellulose.

Here is picture of what the filter looked like before back washing the cellulose. It was filthy, as it should be. I did not have any of the heavy build up of product like other posts reported. It was a nice even coating of dirty media across all the grids.




The only somewhat concerning thing I did see was a heavy buildup of cellulose on the internal airbleed assembly (see pic below). It did not seem to affect performance but it was really thick.



I put the cover back on the filter and performed a back wash. I wanted to see how well the back wash worked since it did almost nothing when I first cleaned the filter with DE in it. Below is a picture after the back wash.



As you can see the back wash only cleaned the top half of the filter. I am convinced that the only real way to clean your filter whether using Cellulose or DE is to pop the top off the filter and clean it with a hose. It only takes about 20 minutes but it guarantees you have a clean filter. you just cannot rely on what is coming through the sight glass. Going forward I will do a short back wash to getthe big stuff out but then open and use a hose to get the rest. This will savea lots of conditioned water as well.



Once that was all done I put the top back on the filter and the pressure was back to 9 PSI. Good to go for another two months.

As far as cost goes I bought two 3 lbs bags of Fiber Clear on Amazon for $48.95. With my 60 Sq Ft filter that will give me three recharges. Since I get two months between cleanings that is enough for 6 months. I am in the northeast so I only have my pool open for 4 months. Less than $50 bucks a year guaranteed and no itchy "potentially" cancer causing media to deal with. I am sold on cellulose.
 
Thanks for your post. I'm sure others will be intrigued by it. Please try to track long term use along with any changes in chemistry or equipment you might experience or note. Short term reviews are fine, but you have to live with this product long term and knowing the upsides and downside over a couple of seasons is important.

I will say this in counterpoint - I have never experienced any itchiness from DE powder getting on my hands and arms (I do wear a simple NIOSH N95 dust mask when using the material). There is no carcinogenic properties from DE getting on your skin as there is no dermal absorption of DE and, unlike fiberglass insulation, DE is not needle shaped and so it washes off completely. Prolonged contact with the skin can cause dermal abrasion which can lead to a mild rash-like reaction but, if washed off within a few minutes, it poses no risk. Also, given that most people use it in an outdoor environment where dilution with fresh air is a huge factor, there is almost zero risk of pulmonary issues. I say all this not to be argumentative but because TFP is very sensitive to people using "arguments in the extreme" type reasoning - just because something can be dangerous doesn't make it dangerous in all situations. By mentioning the carcinogenic properties of DE out of context, it is easy to sound a lot like the alternate product literature which uses marketing language as a scare tactic - "this stuff can cause cancer so it's SCAAAAAARY...WHY WOULD YOU EVER USE IT!" Your write-up with regard to this was well-qualified, but more context is really needed to not unnecessarily burden the argument. I certainly understand your desire to not discharge DE onto your property as it can get picked up on pets if they play in the discharge area and so that is certainly a valid claim.

Thanks for posting.

PS - As for itchiness, check the integrity of your filter lid. Most filter bodies are made of a fiberglass reinforced polymer. Over time and with exposure to weathering, the outer coating of the container can thin out and start to expose the fiberglass reinforcement. I recently noted that my filter lid is very rough and grainy to the touch and, when viewed in bright sunlight, it sparkles a little. I then noted a nice fiberglass rash on my arms when I last opened the unit up because I was wearing short sleeves and "hugged" the lid with my arms while carrying it. It went away after a shower, but it's definitely exposed glass fiber.
 
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I totally agree with your point about DE. I am not a scientist and do not play one on TV. :)

I tried to be careful in describing my rational for the switch. As far as DE being harmful I see no concrete evidence either way. For me it was a personal choice better to be safe then sorry, especially with several family members dealing with lung cancer right now.

Funny you should mention the filter issue. I had the same issue when I did the last cleaning. I touched no DE but I was itching like crazy. I had marks on my arms right where I lifted the top off the filter. Any idea if there are sealers out there that can be applied to keep the fiberglass from deteriorating.
 
For completeness, here is the CDC NIOSH Guide on crystalline silica (the kind of DE used in filters) -

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0684.html

The NIOSH respirator recommendation for an air concentration of 0.5 mg/cubic meter of air (higher than what one would find in an outdoor environment), simply calls for the use of a standard N95 dust mask (nose and mouth covered). Since eye exposure is listed as a possible route, it's always good to wear some form of simple eye protection as well.

If you need to put yourself to sleep some night, you can read the entire 300+ page CDC Toxicology Profile for silica here -

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp211.pdf

This is a quote, in part, from the exposure section on page 186 -

3.4.1.3 Dermal Exposure

Studies of dermal absorption of silica have not been reported and, given the solubility of silica dusts, dermal exposure is likely to be a minor pathway of absorption of silica....
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As for re-coating the filter body, not much you can do for it. I have heard that some people will spray paint it to try to reduce shedding but that's probably only a limited benefit. My filter gets hit with direct sun for many, many hours per day. It is unlikely that painting it will last all that long and then it will look even worse as the paint eventually spalls off. Next time, I'll just remember to wear long sleeves....
 
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pabeader said:
I have seen a few posts where folks used that Hammered Look paint. It seems to hold up pretty good and makes the filter look kinda neat.
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That is neat looking...I could paint my filter with the copper-colored one and everyone will think I have a filter body made out of hammered copper....
 
I have used Fiber Clear but switched over to Purifiber which is much less expensive and identical as far as I could tell. I can get a 25 lb bag for just under $62 (inclusive of tax and shipping) when ordered directly from the manufacturer. I have been using cellulose media for several pool seasons and have had no issues and feel it works as well as the DE powder that I used when I first installed the pool. I only clean the filter 2 or 3 times per season and usually break it down rather than backwashing and losing balanced pool water.
 
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Wow that is cheap. I could get three individual 36oz bags which would give me three no mess recharges for only $40 or 25Lb bag which would give me 11 recharges for $62. I will try this once my Fiber Clear runs out. Thanks for advice.
 
Another option that's come out on the market is perlite media. It typically costs about $2/lb whereas standard DE is about $1/lb. Cellulose fiber is usually closer to $5/lb (although cheaper options have come out). Here's an interesting article on the filtration performance of DE when compared to perlite for the removal of cryptosporidium (crypto is a highly chlorine resistant microbial spore) -

http://www.aquaticsintl.com/facilities/maintenance/defending-de_o
 

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JoyfulNoise said:
Another option that's come out on the market is perlite media. It typically costs about $2/lb whereas standard DE is about $1/lb. Cellulose fiber is usually closer to $5/lb (although cheaper options have come out). Here's an interesting article on the filtration performance of DE when compared to perlite for the removal of cryptosporidium (crypto is a highly chlorine resistant microbial spore) -

http://www.aquaticsintl.com/facilities/maintenance/defending-de_o
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I've been a fan of Purifiber, and also buy it direct.

One thing to consider is when comparing DE to fiber, that you use less than half (by weight) of the fiber. For instance common practice is to use one pound of DE for every 10 sq. ft. of filter area. Purifiber says to use 6 oz (.375 lb) for every 10 sq ft.
 
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ride525 said:
I've been a fan of Purifiber, and also buy it direct.

One thing to consider is when comparing DE to fiber, that you use less than half (by weight) of the fiber. For instance common practice is to use one pound of DE for every 10 sq. ft. of filter area. Purifiber says to use 6 oz (.375 lb) for every 10 sq ft.
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That is true but it also depends on how often you backwash. I know two people personally that stopped using fiber and switched back to DE because they were rinsing/backwashing more frequently and so it was costing them more money.

If it works for you and gives you the performance you like at an acceptable cost, then that's great. I would say anyone can give it a try as it's going to be a different experience for everyone. I have an oversized DE filter for my pool volume such that I can simply tear it down twice per year and that's all I need. Thus DE usage and cost is inconsequential to me.
 
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I wanted to bump this thread as I ordered Fiber Clear on E-Bay. 3 Lbs. for around $17.85 and free shipping. Delivered yesterday and I added 1.5 cups as per the instructions based on my 27" sand filter. The PSI increased around 1 PSI and about 2.5 hours later, it really appears the water has been transformed. The 3 Lbs. will last me a long time. Even spoke to the owner and he spent some time with me on the phone.

Any feedback is appreciated. I know some members have used this product and switched over to others. Any difference in water quality or price, etc. Any other recommendations. Will not need for a while, but always good to know. Thanks!
 
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Regarding the use of Fiber Clear. According to the manufacturer, Fiber clear falls off the grids once the pump shuts off.

If this is true then the grid material is taking the full force of the water pressure unprotected when the pump turns back on. To proctect the grid fabric it is said to make sure you have the right amount of DE in your filter to protect and prolong the life of the grid fabric. The DE coats the grids and acts as a buffer to protect the grid material when the pump is turned on and exerts pressure on the grid fabric.

Fiber Clear drops off the grids when the pump turns off and when the pump comes back on the fabric is taking the full force of the pump exerted pressure.

It seems that running the grids with no media on them would prematurely wear out the gird cloth???????????????
 
texaspoolman57 said:
Regarding the use of Fiber Clear. According to the manufacturer, Fiber clear falls off the grids once the pump shuts off.

If this is true then the grid material is taking the full force of the water pressure unprotected when the pump turns back on. To proctect the grid fabric it is said to make sure you have the right amount of DE in your filter to protect and prolong the life of the grid fabric. The DE coats the grids and acts as a buffer to protect the grid material when the pump is turned on and exerts pressure on the grid fabric.

Fiber Clear drops off the grids when the pump turns off and when the pump comes back on the fabric is taking the full force of the pump exerted pressure.

It seems that running the grids with no media on them would prematurely wear out the gird cloth???????????????
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Before any real pressure builds on the fabric (which can take it anyway) the cellulose will have redistributed on the grids. With a new charge of D.E. on clean grids the same thing happens for a while until it gets very dirty, especially with all the oils that end up in a pool.
 
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If you were servicing commercial pools and went from 100# of DE per week to 25# cellulose per month, backwashing twice a week instead of everyday, filter teardowns once a month instead of weekly, that only took 10 minutes per filter instead of 30, clean and clear water instead of slightly cloudy each morning, you would recommended cellulose fiber in a DE filter. And that was on each property.
 
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I was merely suggesting and recommending based on my experience with Fiber Clear on a Sand Filter. I have no experience with a DE Filter. If the Cellulose falls of the DE Grids, would it not kick back dirt back in the pool, or would it stick to the Cellulose, and does DE stay on the grids. Personally, a safer, healthier approach is always the best, without gloves, masks, etc. Thanks!
 
Catanzaro said:
I was merely suggesting and recommending based on my experience with Fiber Clear on a Sand Filter. I have no experience with a DE Filter. If the Cellulose falls of the DE Grids, would it not kick back dirt back in the pool, or would it stick to the Cellulose, and does DE stay on the grids. Personally, a safer, healthier approach is always the best, without gloves, masks, etc. Thanks!
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Those are excellent questions. Again if the Fiber Clear falls off the DE grids (fabric) and does not coat the grids again until the pump is turned back on does the open up a small window of time for dirt to find its way back into the pool until the grids are once again coated after the pump comes back on and sends the Fiber Clear media coating the grids again. This process happens every time the pump is turned off and then back on again.
 

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