Calcium Hardness Test not turning red

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Flbeachluvr

Flbeachluvr

Bronze Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
445
Port Orange, FL
First CH test of the season. Added the 20 drops of the R-0010 then the 5 drops of the R-0011L. The sample showed a very pale, barely noticeable hint of pink. I decided to go ahead and add the R-0012 and got up to 70 drops before I stopped as I couldn't really detect any color change. Tried the whole test again and got the same result. Usually my CH is a bit high, around 575-600.

Could my CH really be 0? I checked my kitchen faucet water and it did turn red.

Here are my other numbers:

FC 7
CC 0
pH 8 (going to add some muriatic acid)
TA 70
CYA 70
Salt 3200
 
The issue is that the sample doesn’t turn red after adding the calcium indicator. I tried with a sample of my tap water and it turned red.

I guess my question at this point is, is it possible to lose all my calcium hardness over the winter?
 
ArtziFartzi83 said:
First and foremost, make sure your reagents are farely new. You said "first test of the season". Your reagents can go bad or show incorrect readings if they have been sitting around for a while or have been exposed to cold or high temperatures.
Click to expand...

I thought this might be the case but I tested my tap water and the sample did turn red indicating calcium.

- - - Updated - - -

The issue is that after adding the second reagent my sample doesn't turn red at all. I'm finding it hard to believe that I could have gone from 575 to probably close to 0 over the winter.
 
CH reading ZERO????

I posted yesterday about my calcium hardness issue but didn't get much response so I thought I'd reword it. Three separate CH tests seem to indicate a very low CH level after the winter. My last test (maybe in October?) came in at 575. Yesterday after adding the R-0011L the sample never turned red to indicate the presence of calcium. I did test my tap water to make sure my reagents weren't bad and that sample did change color.

My question is what would cause my CH to drop so much? I'm thinking maybe with all the rain we get in Central Florida? We get quite a bit of evaporation and then it rains buckets and the pool is filled back up again. We rarely have to use the hose to fill it back up. Would that explain it?

My numbers:

FC 7
CC 0
pH 8 ( I added muratic acid and got it down to 7.4)
TA 70
CH 0?????
CYA 70
Salt 3200


Moderator comment: Threads merged together
 
Re: CH reading ZERO????

Evaporation - no. The refills just add to what's already there. Excess water however, from heavy rains and overflowing, could lower it some. You were at almost 600 though. That's a lot to see disappear. :confused: Someone else may confirm, but I believe calcium that we test can become lower if it is no longer suspended in the water and actually attaches to the pool to form scale. Not positive, but I think. Still, if that's true, you would probably see a significant amount of scale forming from the winter. Some places that get cold or close see their pH climb which can indeed cause a scale issue, but I don't see that in your case.
 
Re: CH reading ZERO????

Thank you for being a bronze supporter! That does sound a tad perplexing. Let's see if I can help.

First let's double check your testing procedure:
1. Rinse and fill the clear plastic cylinder to the 10ml mark
2. Add 10 drops of R-0010 and mix.
Then, add 3 drops of R-0011L and mix. Red indicates the presence of Calcium.

When we say red, we really mean this color:
redblue.jpg

Lastly, just to double check the pre-test procedure:
1. Water circulating at least 20 minutes before water sample taken
2. Water sample taken from 12-24 inches down, or as close as you can get.
3. No chemicals/acids/bleach added in the 20 mins before sample taken
4. Test performed promptly after sample taken
5. Test kit purchased within the last year and bottles not expired yet
6. Test kit stored indoors and in the dark (not in fridge or freezer, not in front of air vent, not next to window, etc)

Have you used any floc, clarifier, metal remover, green out, yellow out, or other fancy pool stuff in last 6 months?
 
Re: CH reading ZERO????

Texas Splash said:
Evaporation - no. The refills just add to what's already there. Excess water however, from heavy rains and overflowing, could lower it some. You were at almost 600 though. That's a lot to see disappear. :confused: Someone else may confirm, but I believe calcium that we test can become lower if it is no longer suspended in the water and actually attaches to the pool to form scale. Not positive, but I think. Still, if that's true, you would probably see a significant amount of scale forming from the winter. Some places that get cold or close see their pH climb which can indeed cause a scale issue, but I don't see that in your case.
Click to expand...

I have actually seen some white flakes on the bottom of the pool recently. My pH is constantly high and always has been. I have to add MA every other day.
 
Re: CH reading ZERO????

BattleOfYakima said:
Thank you for being a bronze supporter! That does sound a tad perplexing. Let's see if I can help.

First let's double check your testing procedure:
1. Rinse and fill the clear plastic cylinder to the 10ml mark
2. Add 10 drops of R-0010 and mix.
Then, add 3 drops of R-0011L and mix. Red indicates the presence of Calcium.

When we say red, we really mean this color:
View attachment 76720

Lastly, just to double check the pre-test procedure:
1. Water circulating at least 20 minutes before water sample taken
2. Water sample taken from 12-24 inches down, or as close as you can get.
3. No chemicals/acids/bleach added in the 20 mins before sample taken
4. Test performed promptly after sample taken
5. Test kit purchased within the last year and bottles not expired yet
6. Test kit stored indoors and in the dark (not in fridge or freezer, not in front of air vent, not next to window, etc)

Have you used any floc, clarifier, metal remover, green out, yellow out, or other fancy pool stuff in last 6 months?
Click to expand...

I have been testing by using 20 drops of the R-0010 and then 5 drops of the R-0011L for a 25 ml sample. After adding the R-0011L I got no color change. Everything was done correctly as in your list. No fancy pool stuff ever added. Kit is stored inside in a closet. This is my third pool season so I feel reasonably confident in my testing skills.
 

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Re: CH reading ZERO????

I felt pretty confident you were doing everything correctly since your tap water test yielded a color change, but when diagnosing, covering the basics solves a surprising number of posts.

Approximately how much MA are you adding a week or how long is it taking you to get through a gallon?

Could you please take a temperature of your water when you get a chance, using any kind of thermometer you may have, and post the results? Also, no borates/borax added to the water? I'd like to calculate your CSI value using PoolMath just to see where that is - I'm also wondering about the plaster leaching it, but that's not my field of expertise, just trying to gather all the facts before calling in an expert.
 
Re: CH reading ZERO????

BattleOfYakima said:
I felt pretty confident you were doing everything correctly since your tap water test yielded a color change, but when diagnosing, covering the basics solves a surprising number of posts.

Approximately how much MA are you adding a week or how long is it taking you to get through a gallon?

Could you please take a temperature of your water when you get a chance, using any kind of thermometer you may have, and post the results? Also, no borates/borax added to the water? I'd like to calculate your CSI value using PoolMath just to see where that is - I'm also wondering about the plaster leaching it, but that's not my field of expertise, just trying to gather all the facts before calling in an expert.
Click to expand...

Pool temp yesterday afternoon was 86 degrees. No borates/borax added. My calculations with the Pool Math says -infinity for the CSI.

I add about 2 cups of MA every other day. For the past couple of days though I've been adding about a cup every day.

I admit to not being as diligent on testing, etc. during the non-swim months here for things like TA, CYA and CH.

We do get an annual rainfall here of almost 60 inches and do rely a lot on rain to fill up the pool.
 
Re: CH reading ZERO????

My plan is to purchase some CH increaser on my lunch break today and re-test the water when I get home. Then I'm going to add a bit of the increaser to the sample and re-test just to confirm that it turns red to show the calcium. If it does, I will then add about half of what Pool Math says I should, let it circulate and then re-test. Will repeat the procedure tomorrow with more increaser until I reach the appropriate level.

Does that sound okay?
 
JamesW said:
Try the modified test procedure. Your calcium has not disappeared. You're probably getting some sort of interference.
Click to expand...

:goodpost:

JamesW is correct, please try the modified procedure by adding 5-10 drops of R-0012 first before adding any R-0010. Just make sure you count all drops of R-0012 used in your final tally (10 drops initially + whatever used after adding the indicator dye). Certain metals can interfere with the indicator dye and cause the color of the dye to get "locked" up because some metals bind to the dye irreversibly (meaning the R-0012 cannot remove them). Adding the R-0012 first locks up the metals so they can't cause interference.

Also be sure that your water is circulated before testing just to ensure that no stagnant rain water is on the surface. You most certainly do not have zero calcium in the water or else your water would be highly corrosive to your plaster surface. Something is interfering with the test. You tested your tap water and the chemicals work so it's unlikely to be expired reagents.
 
May I? No expert here, just someone who read through your thread. You seem to have skirted the very first question, which to me needed a straight answer and could be the very cause of what you're experiencing:

First and foremost, make sure your reagents are farely new. You said "first test of the season". Your reagents can go bad or show incorrect readings if they have been sitting around for a while or have been exposed to cold or high temperatures.
Click to expand...

Your signature indicates "Taylor K-2006 test kit." That means your reagents would have a clearly marked expiration date. Have your reagents expired or not?

If they have, are you basing their reliability solely on the fact that they seem to work with tap water?

Hey, it's your pool, and your kit. But if they were mine, before I spent days tracking a ghost of a "mystery" problem, and/or dumping chemicals in my pool, I'd make sure my testing procedures were up to snuff. And testing with expired reagents is not that.

If you've got that covered, then please forgive, and hunt away...
 
Dirk said:
May I? No expert here, just someone who read through your thread. You seem to have skirted the very first question, which to me needed a straight answer and could be the very cause of what you're experiencing:



Your signature indicates "Taylor K-2006 test kit." That means your reagents would have a clearly marked expiration date. Have your reagents expired or not?

If they have, are you basing their reliability solely on the fact that they seem to work with tap water?

Hey, it's your pool, and your kit. But if they were mine, before I spent days tracking a ghost of a "mystery" problem, and/or dumping chemicals in my pool, I'd make sure my testing procedures were up to snuff. And testing with expired reagents is not that.

If you've got that covered, then please forgive, and hunt away...
Click to expand...

I’m not at home to see an expiration date. If my memory serves me (it may not) I bought the reagents around the middle of summer last year. I did just leave the pool store where I bought all new reagents for the calcium test. We’ll see my results when I get home.

Still a newbie here so excuse my ignorance.
 
Still a newbie here so excuse my ignorance.
Click to expand...
Not even an issue. Believe me when I say we all go through so much info here, that at times we ALL need some help to catch the details. It's a lot of info. You're doing great, and we look forward to what your next set of test results provide. :)
 

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