Builders are trying to change pumps on our build

[choseneagle297]

We just found out that our builder is trying to switch our pool pump equipment during construction due to possible supply issues. I just wanted to make get an idea of what was more recommended and to make sure we weren't getting screwed. The pool isn't too large 23x13 ft ~7000gals (according to our contract) with 2 telescoping fountain/bubblers on our baja shelf, no other water features, no spa. Mostly asking about the pumps (Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP or Hayward Tristar VS 2.75HP with the Omni Hub Automation). See below for full parts list and proposed replacements. Thank you in advanced, this is our first pool as a young family and I don't want to make the wrong decision.

Pump:
Pentair Model- Intelliflo VS 3HP
Hayward Model- Tristar VS 2.75 HP w/ Omni Hub Automation

Filter:
Pentair Model- Clean & Clear Filter 320
Hayward Model- SwimClear 325

Lights:
Pentair Model- Microbrite LED Color Changing
Hayward Model- ColorLogic 320 LED Color Changing ( these lights are also available to do exterior landscape lighting so they sync w/ pool colors if needed in the future)

Automation:
Pentair Model- Not sold, standard time clock installation
Hayward Model- Upgrade to Omni WIFI automation (No charge)- this automation paired with the Colorlogic lights releases and extra 27 light color/show options and can control equipment from phone.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

The TriStar VS is a fine pump and is the Hayward equivalent to the IntelliFlo pump.

 

[guinness]

Are you saying PB originally had Pentair but are now proposing Hayward? It's true that Intelliflo pumps are hard to come by, but Pentair is now producing IntelliFlo3 VSF as a substitute and it's WiFi enabled. If you get it with I/O board it can control your lights too.

 

[choseneagle297]

Are you saying PB originally had Pentair but are now proposing Hayward? It's true that Intelliflo pumps are hard to come by, but Pentair is now producing IntelliFlo3 VSF as a substitute and it's WiFi enabled. If you get it with I/O board it can control your lights too.

Yes that’s what they are proposing. I heard about the flo3 I’ll have to ask if that is what they were going to use

 

[1poolman1]

Just my opinion. In business I would never install for a customer a product that hadn't been on the market for at least a year. Even then, I would ask at my suppliers, "How many of these have come back?" You find that the initial release was very often "buggy" and made for some angry customers. Learned that the hard way.

Pentair makes great stuff. There would be no separate time clock for that pump.

The Hayward products recommended have been around a while and most of the issues worked out. While we all like the "latest and greatest," pool stuff just needs to work reliably. My 10+ year-old Hayward EcoStar has not failed me yet but was full of problems when they came out. I got a good one. The new TriStar is the same pump with updated, and better, motor and electronics. Like all LED color changing lighting, don't expect a great life span from any brand.

 

[Newdude]

+1. The new Pemtair pumps were on their way by the time my pool started getting built. I could have sold my last Gen, brand new pump for hundreds more than I paid for it.

I happily stayed with the last of the old pumps instead of the first of the new pumps.

 

[choseneagle297]

Just my opinion. In business I would never install for a customer a product that hadn't been on the market for at least a year. Even then, I would ask at my suppliers, "How many of these have come back?" You find that the initial release was very often "buggy" and made for some angry customers. Learned that the hard way.

Pentair makes great stuff. There would be no separate time clock for that pump.

The Hayward products recommended have been around a while and most of the issues worked out. While we all like the "latest and greatest," pool stuff just needs to work reliably. My 10+ year-old Hayward EcoStar has not failed me yet but was full of problems when they came out. I got a good one. The new TriStar is the same pump with updated, and better, motor and electronics. Like all LED color changing lighting, don't expect a great life span from any brand.

So the tristar model has been around for a bit? I cant seem to find that much information that explains the difference. They seem quite similar outside of company lifespan. I've always heard about Pentair being the best but the lack of automation might make me lean toward hayward. Would 0.25HP really make a difference? I don't know. It's just a lot of specs that I don't fully understand.

 

[1poolman1]

So the tristar model has been around for a bit? I cant seem to find that much information that explains the difference. They seem quite similar outside of company lifespan. I've always heard about Pentair being the best but the lack of automation might make me lean toward hayward. Would 0.25HP really make a difference? I don't know. It's just a lot of specs that I don't fully understand.

All the internal parts, the parts that handle the water, and body are identical on my EcoStar 2.7 and the now re-labeled TriStar 2.7. New motor and drive manufacturer and new name to get away from the bad reputation of the EcoStar. That's the only difference. They are also the same on the TriStar XE, just a different motor. The reality is that the "wet end" of a pump almost never fails unless damaged by heat or freezing, etc. It is the motors or electronics that fail on pumps, and that was the issue with the EcoStar, bad VSP drives.

The TriStar pump originally came out, late 90's early 2000's, in single speed only as a replacement for the dismal NorthStar. They were/are an excellent alternative to the very popular WhisperFlow, that has been out since the mid 1990's when it was first manufactured by Purex (bought by Pentair). The TriStar cost less (at the time) and moved more water than the WhisperFlow for the same horsepower. I sold a bunch of them.

Until very recently, the WhisperFlow has been virtually unchanged (lid, minor sealplate) for all that time. The Intelliflow is just a variable-speed, high horsepower, Whisperflow until very recently. And, the internals of the new generation may be the same, I haven't seen one apart.

 

[choseneagle297]

All the internal parts, the parts that handle the water, and body are identical on my EcoStar 2.7 and the now re-labeled TriStar 2.7. New motor and drive manufacturer and new name to get away from the bad reputation of the EcoStar. That's the only difference. They are also the same on the TriStar XE, just a different motor. The reality is that the "wet end" of a pump almost never fails unless damaged by heat or freezing, etc. It is the motors or electronics that fail on pumps, and that was the issue with the EcoStar, bad VSP drives.

The TriStar pump originally came out, late 90's early 2000's, in single speed only as a replacement for the dismal NorthStar. They were/are an excellent alternative to the very popular WhisperFlow, that has been out since the mid 1990's when it was first manufactured by Purex (bought by Pentair). The TriStar cost less (at the time) and moved more water than the WhisperFlow for the same horsepower. I sold a bunch of them.

Until very recently, the WhisperFlow has been virtually unchanged (lid, minor sealplate) for all that time. The Intelliflow is just a variable-speed, high horsepower, Whisperflow until very recently. And, the internals of the new generation may be the same, I haven't seen one apart.

Thank you for this information. When was the new motor for the TriStar introduced? This year? Are they a marked improvement from the ones used in the EcoStar?

 

[proavia]

The Tristar VS series has been out for a few years.
I replaced my 9+ year old Ecostar (bearing failure) earlier this year with a Tristar 950 VS.
Same fuctionality, updated motor, drive and interface panel.

 

[1poolman1]

Thank you for this information. When was the new motor for the TriStar introduced? This year? Are they a marked improvement from the ones used in the EcoStar?

Its more the electronics (drive) than the actual motor. When an EcoStar would fail, it was always, in my experience, the drive. That was the part that they would supply for warranty replacement. Unless there was a seal leak, I never saw the actual motor fail on more than two VSP, and none were Hayward (1 Pentair, possibly a Century motor, 1 Waterway, a V-Green2.7). Hayward like all other manufacturers (except Waterway), doesn't indicate who makes their VSP motors. The actual EcoStar motors appeared to be made by Century. The newer ones may be. The motors themselves are very simple and long lasting. The drive (the part that sits atop the motor and includes the interface) has always been the weak point in VSP's.

 

[BMerrill]

My pool equipment is Totally Hayward (see signature) . Have no issues with it.
Insist on the OmniLogic HLBASE and the Hayward S3 SWG, increase the filter to the next size.

 

[choseneagle297]

Its more the electronics (drive) than the actual motor. When an EcoStar would fail, it was always, in my experience, the drive. That was the part that they would supply for warranty replacement. Unless there was a seal leak, I never saw the actual motor fail on more than two VSP, and none were Hayward (1 Pentair, possibly a Century motor, 1 Waterway, a V-Green2.7). Hayward like all other manufacturers (except Waterway), doesn't indicate who makes their VSP motors. The actual EcoStar motors appeared to be made by Century. The newer ones may be. The motors themselves are very simple and long lasting. The drive (the part that sits atop the motor and includes the interface) has always been the weak point in VSP's.

The weak point in all VSPs or in Hayward's specifically? All of this seems so foreign to me. I understand the difference between the single/2speed pumps and the VSPs but the differences between the vendors are making my brain hurt.

 

[ajw22]

The weak point in all VSPs or in Hayward's specifically? All of this seems so foreign to me. I understand the difference between the single/2speed pumps and the VSPs but the differences between the vendors are making my brain hurt.

There are few differences between vendors. They all use the same basic technology.

The differences are in marketing, warranty, support, user interface, and electronics.

 

[choseneagle297]

My pool equipment is Totally Hayward (see signature) . Have no issues with it.
Insist on the OmniLogic HLBASE and the Hayward S3 SWG, increase the filter to the next size.

what's the difference between what was provided to me as a substitute and the HLBASE and same question with the filter

 

[guinness]

Insist on the OmniLogic HLBASE and the Hayward S3 SWG, increase the filter to the next size.

I'm assuming the OP has already signed the contract so the PB will charge for any changes/upgrades (like SWG).

@choseneagle297 What has the PB communicated to you? I assume they can't source the Pentair equipment and are offering you Hayward instead? When is your build scheduled?

 

[choseneagle297]

I'm assuming the OP has already signed the contract so the PB will charge for any changes/upgrades (like SWG).

@choseneagle297 What has the PB communicated to you? I assume they can't source the Pentair equipment and are offering you Hayward instead? When is your build scheduled?

Build is underway. its dug, plumbed (sans equiptment), and rebar has been done so far. Just heard yesterday or tuesday about the delays with pentair (10000 units backordered). And they sent out an email saying as of now all pentair products will be swapped with Hayward. I had to reach out to our builders to get the specific information for our build and our proposed replacements.

 

[guinness]

I don't think you should have any concerns with the substituted equipment. The PB offered decent equivalents and Hayward products are of good quality. Good luck with your build!

 

[choseneagle297]

I don't think you should have any concerns with the substituted equipment. The PB offered decent equivalents and Hayward products are of good quality. Good luck with your build!

would there be any reason to delay the build and wait for the pentair eq? That's still an option but the PB didn't give any estimates on how long it could be.

 

[Newdude]

I'd be concerned that everybody else follows suit causing issues getting hayward, putting you back at square 1 if you delay anything.

After having Pentair for 8+ years I was successful securing it for my 2nd build. I would have taken Hayward flagship products without blinking if I needed to.