I am really frustrated with my pool right now. Its been open since Memorial Day weekend (5/30/22), and so far nothing is going right.
I posted about the ants in my (sand) filter...I have no idea if that's a part of my problems...
I have a bunch of different things going on, and I should probably post them separately but, in case they are all related, I'm going to put it all out there and you all can advise what should get its own post. Here we go:
Let's start with chemistry. I have the Taylor kit (the big one, can't recall the name at the moment bc I am really aggravated...) and I refreshed all the chemicals at the start of the season. My initial readings were:
Temp 70
FC 0
CYA 0
TA 40
CH 25
pH 7.8
I had quite a bit of leaves and debris in the pool. I scooped out a bunch prior to starting up the filter/pump. I also ran the robot vacuum in there about 6 times to get whatever I couldn't with my busted leaf rake (the pole got run over-don't even ask how the heck it ended up in the driveway, 400' away from the pool.) Since the water was already green, I was really eager to get the pump running to at least circulate the water, and, chlorine and CYA. I also had an ant nest in my filter to destroy.
I was really nervous about firing up the filter & pump. I opened all but 2 of the returns (the ones on the stairs that are Hayward Jet Air returns), let the antifreeze drain out, then I dragged the hose over and filled the pump basket with water and turned it on. Nerve wracking. I didn't get it going the first two attempts (kept losing prime) but I finally figured out that I had to close the main drain and the deep end skimmer, and then it primed. I opened the air release valve on the return plumbing line and let it run until JUST water was coming out, and then I closed it. I noticed a few bubbled in the pump at this point, but, attributed it to the fact that I was sort of winging it. The filter was set to recirculate at this point bc I just wanted to get some chlorine distributed. I had an ant nest to flush outta there too, but, first things first. I also had to add some water so I'd have enough to keep the skimmer full during a good backwash.
I noticed my return plumbing was shaking a bit, which seemed abnormal to me. I went around and checked the returns, and 3 out of 4 had a nice strong flow, and the last one had nothing, not even a trickle. The antifreeze was just kind of sitting there in the water in front of the return. I strongly suspected the shaking and the dead return were related (I know, genius, right? lol) but I'm still a new pool owner, and it was my first time opening a pool, so, went back to the pad and started playing with valves. I decided to try to open the main drain. I did that, and it had no effect on the returns, but I noticed that the bubbles went away in the pump. There were no bubbles coming from the returns, btw, when they were in the pump.
The shaking pipes weren't so bad that I could notice it from anywhere but the pad, so I kind of shrugged it off, and set about filling the pool so that BOTH skimmers* had enough water. Once that was done, I opened the valve for the deep end skimmer. Shaking pipes remained unchanged. No bubbles in pump. Still no flow from 4th return. Then I remembered something...
I have an unused polaris port on the same side as that return, maybe 3 ft away. It was originally treated as a return, and the actual return was sealed behind my liner. I posted about this last year. I took a guess that the pool co that closed my pool mixed up the two. This is the same co that found the return behind my liner the first time they closed the pool after the liner was installed! They are the ones that put a different, "permanent" cover on the polaris port to begin with, so we'd "remember." It previously had a plug in it that was tightened with a wing nut. I remembered that much, so when I removed the winter plugs from the returns, I left that one alone. The wing nut plug was to the right of the ladder, the winter plug to the left. Now, the left return was not working...I went ahead and removed the wing nut plug and lo and behold! when I turned the pump back on, the shaking was gone and water was flowing out of that return, while the one on the left was still dead as a doornail. Those dummies. For whatever reason they took the wing nut plug out and switched it to the other side. That problem was solved. (I was hoping that this would also explain why the pool keeps losing water, but, no. Its still leaking. I think.)
At that point I turned the system off, and set the filter to backwash. I had a LOT of chlorine in the pool (still no CYA, so I had the FC at 8) and I wanted the ants to feel my wrath. I set the valve to take only from the main drain so I could backwash for a while. I let it run for 3 min, then rinsed for 20 sec then backwashed again for another 2 min, then rinsed, then set it to filter. The pool water cleared from green to blue in the first 24 hours, but it turned VERY cloudy, and cloudy it remains. I needed to get the dead algae out of the water, I guessed.
The filter pressure, from the start, was a little higher than it was last year. Last year I recall it being 10-11 most of the time. This year it never has been below 13. But, I figured the pool is wicked dirty, its got a lot of junk passing through it, so I set my attention on the water chemistry. I began adding CYA. I know from last year that it takes a bit to show in the test, that you can lose it to backwashing, and its easy to add too much. With that in mind, I kept the filter on recirculate at night, and filter during the day (so I could watch the pressure.) All the while I dosed the pool for a SLAM, assuming 30 CYA, which was my goal. I brushed 2-3 times a day, skimmed, set the robot loose as often as possible. As much as I didn't want to, so I wouldn't lose my stabilizer, I kept having to backwash bc the pressure would shoot up to 20 or 25 sometimes, usually really quickly. I thought that was odd, and noticed a bunch of junk in the pump basket. I think it might have come in from the deep end skimmer, which was wicked gross, and I turned on last. I cleaned that out and backwashed and it was at that time I noticed that the filter was much quieter when backwashing. The pressure went down after that and did not go back up. Fluke?
When filtering, there is a "crackling" noise around the multiport. It goes away when on recirculate, backwash, or rinse. I also still have bubbles (consistently) in the pump when the shallow end skimmer valve is open alone, and the other two (deep end skimmer and main drain) are closed. In this condition, the filter pressure goes down to 12, which seems to be my "low/normal" for this season. When I open the deep end skimmer (IF I can get the water level high enough) the bubbles remain, and the pressure stays put, until I open the main drain. when the main drain is open (with or without the others, either one, the other, or both) the bubbles in the pump disappear, but the pressure goes up to 17-18, and I notice a slight shaking in the return pipes. In either case (bubbles in the pump or not) there are no bubbles (that I can see) from any of the returns. I've tried looking very closely.
I have tried pouring water on the pump lid (no change). I tried the water trick on all the valves, and all the above ground, suction side plumbing. No change. Its all relatively new (past the valves), so I'd be pretty disappointed if the pipes were leaking, but the valves are OLD. I suppose I could rebuild the valves, or at least lube them up but I'm not sure...can I do that with water in the system or do I have to shut everything down and blow water out of the lines? Is there some other test I can do? I did the soap test the first year we lived here and found leaks etc, which led to a new pump, filter, and above ground plumbing on the equipment side of the valves. Should I try plastic wrap?
Note the "*" above. I have 2 skimmers. One in the deep end, which is larger, and one in the shallow end. My pool is way out of level. I knew this, sort of, bc the pool builder mentioned it, but said it "wasn't so bad" because the structure was still sound/intact. The panels had not separated or anything. I noticed it, glaringly, when the liner went in (it has a border) because it appeared the returns and skimmers were not lined up, and then after it was filled it was REALLY obvious. I went around and measured, and the water level (a little low at the time) is 8 1/2" down from the top of the coping at the shallow end skimmer, but is 9 3/4" from the coping at the deep end skimmer. This results in the deep end skimmer being less than 1/2 full when the shallow end skimmer is at 2/3 full (where it operates best), and the water being 1" below the top step, which results in it being dirty ALL THE TIME, and, the deep end skimmer is very vulnerable to sucking air if the weather accelerates evaporation to any level above minimum. If I fill the pool so the deep end skimmer is happy (2/3-3/4 full), and the top stair is covered (as I think it should be?) then the shallow end skimmer is full to the top of the frame and it doesn't work anymore. I would be fine with this, except, I believe we have a leak. If I fill it to the very edge of the top step (as a convenient "line" to compare against) it will drop to 1" below it within 24 hrs, regardless of the weather. I have noticed it goes faster when the pump is running, but not by a significant enough amount for me to be certain the leak is in the plumbing.
This "leak" started (or, maybe got worse) last season, later in August, around the time I finally installed the Hayward Air jets on the stairs. The air jets are pretty close to the top of the stairs, so I filled the pool a little more than I had it all season and fired them up. They worked...just ok. I would have to turn the other returns off for them to work, but I kept getting water oozing out of the air control valve at the top of the stairs so I turned them "off." (Closed the valve on the pad). That's when I noticed the pool would NOT stay full enough (top stair fully submerged) to make them enjoyable. So, I screwed the air jet nozzles shut. It didn't help. The same month, we also had one of those metal shade canopies blow from our yard into the pool during a crazy wind storm. We pulled it out carefully, and looked for obvious damage, and found none. I had a good amount of anxiety about the disappearing water for the rest of the season, but, by then the weather had started to turn, everyone went back to school, and we had the pool closed.
I did not open the 2 air jet returns this season, thinking it would be a way to potentially determine if they are to blame for the disappearing water or not. I'm still losing water this season. I've gone around with dye, when the water was very still, to all the returns, skimmers, stairs, and polaris ports (2 have been repurposed for lights, the other is just chillin.) I found no obvious leaks this way, but I know this method is difficult unless you have a pretty decent leak. I have gone around the pool at night with a flashlight, shining it this angle and that, feeling slowly with my fingers, scrutinizing the liner around the level the water settles at to see if I can see or feel a defect. None so far. I have never found a wet spot anywhere in my yard or around the equipment pad.
Now, my water isn't clear despite the chemistry being ok, and I can't ever have both skimmers running, which I believe would help. I tried using skimmer socks, and they helped (we went from not being able to see the bottom at all to being able to see the shallow end clearly, and about halfway down the deep end), but...the pressure in the filter gets high so quickly I can't keep them in there enough. (I work from home 3 days a week, but still can't be out at the pool every hour just because I'm here.) I'd like to use DE in the filter, but again, I hesitate to do so because I'm not sure it won't make a bad situation worse (filter pressure.)
I don't know where to start. I've been fiddling around out there for almost 3 weeks, testing this, trying that, and I cant' clear the pool, can't figure out what the heck is happening to the water, can't figure out what's wrong with the filter, why I have bubbles, etc. I am not sure what things may be connected or coincidence. Did ants eat my spider gasket? Do I have the dreaded undergound leak? Do my skimmers need to be replaced? Or is it something less expensive/critical such as I just need to deep clean my filter? Ive stayed up until 3 am at least 2X a week reading posts here, trying to find a similar condition or set of conditions, but always end up more confused and concerned than before. Seriously, I've probably spent a solid 50 hours on this site this season. My husband wants me to call the pool co, but, I know that unless I know what's wrong (and decide I don't want to or can't fix it myself) they will just replace every part of my system and plumbing until they get lucky or I go broke. I want to do a lot more trouble shooting on my own first before I call anyone.
I've attached a pic of my bubbles. It's not a great photo because of the stinkin pollen and glare, but you can see the very consistently lentil-sized bubbles in the bottom left corner. I also attached a picture of my skimmer, which has a "seam" around the ledge where the top of the basket rests, which did not draw dye in, but I have no idea if its supposed to be there or not, and, the "rocks" that are in the second, unplumbed hole in the skimmer. Is there supposed to be a plug in there? I did not remove one, ever, but don't recall if one was there at any point.
For anyone who does not remember the saga of my pool's rehabilitation ion 2020, I will restate that my lines were pressure tested and passed. I apologize for the length of this post, but I have no idea what info is relevant vs not, so I put it all here. I can't sleep because of this stupid pool, so I'll be up for hours to answer questions, clarify, etc if somehow, the info you need isn't here.
I'll post separately about my cloudy water. That is another really sore subject...over 40 gallons of chlorine later...
I posted about the ants in my (sand) filter...I have no idea if that's a part of my problems...
I have a bunch of different things going on, and I should probably post them separately but, in case they are all related, I'm going to put it all out there and you all can advise what should get its own post. Here we go:
Let's start with chemistry. I have the Taylor kit (the big one, can't recall the name at the moment bc I am really aggravated...) and I refreshed all the chemicals at the start of the season. My initial readings were:
Temp 70
FC 0
CYA 0
TA 40
CH 25
pH 7.8
I had quite a bit of leaves and debris in the pool. I scooped out a bunch prior to starting up the filter/pump. I also ran the robot vacuum in there about 6 times to get whatever I couldn't with my busted leaf rake (the pole got run over-don't even ask how the heck it ended up in the driveway, 400' away from the pool.) Since the water was already green, I was really eager to get the pump running to at least circulate the water, and, chlorine and CYA. I also had an ant nest in my filter to destroy.
I was really nervous about firing up the filter & pump. I opened all but 2 of the returns (the ones on the stairs that are Hayward Jet Air returns), let the antifreeze drain out, then I dragged the hose over and filled the pump basket with water and turned it on. Nerve wracking. I didn't get it going the first two attempts (kept losing prime) but I finally figured out that I had to close the main drain and the deep end skimmer, and then it primed. I opened the air release valve on the return plumbing line and let it run until JUST water was coming out, and then I closed it. I noticed a few bubbled in the pump at this point, but, attributed it to the fact that I was sort of winging it. The filter was set to recirculate at this point bc I just wanted to get some chlorine distributed. I had an ant nest to flush outta there too, but, first things first. I also had to add some water so I'd have enough to keep the skimmer full during a good backwash.
I noticed my return plumbing was shaking a bit, which seemed abnormal to me. I went around and checked the returns, and 3 out of 4 had a nice strong flow, and the last one had nothing, not even a trickle. The antifreeze was just kind of sitting there in the water in front of the return. I strongly suspected the shaking and the dead return were related (I know, genius, right? lol) but I'm still a new pool owner, and it was my first time opening a pool, so, went back to the pad and started playing with valves. I decided to try to open the main drain. I did that, and it had no effect on the returns, but I noticed that the bubbles went away in the pump. There were no bubbles coming from the returns, btw, when they were in the pump.
The shaking pipes weren't so bad that I could notice it from anywhere but the pad, so I kind of shrugged it off, and set about filling the pool so that BOTH skimmers* had enough water. Once that was done, I opened the valve for the deep end skimmer. Shaking pipes remained unchanged. No bubbles in pump. Still no flow from 4th return. Then I remembered something...
I have an unused polaris port on the same side as that return, maybe 3 ft away. It was originally treated as a return, and the actual return was sealed behind my liner. I posted about this last year. I took a guess that the pool co that closed my pool mixed up the two. This is the same co that found the return behind my liner the first time they closed the pool after the liner was installed! They are the ones that put a different, "permanent" cover on the polaris port to begin with, so we'd "remember." It previously had a plug in it that was tightened with a wing nut. I remembered that much, so when I removed the winter plugs from the returns, I left that one alone. The wing nut plug was to the right of the ladder, the winter plug to the left. Now, the left return was not working...I went ahead and removed the wing nut plug and lo and behold! when I turned the pump back on, the shaking was gone and water was flowing out of that return, while the one on the left was still dead as a doornail. Those dummies. For whatever reason they took the wing nut plug out and switched it to the other side. That problem was solved. (I was hoping that this would also explain why the pool keeps losing water, but, no. Its still leaking. I think.)
At that point I turned the system off, and set the filter to backwash. I had a LOT of chlorine in the pool (still no CYA, so I had the FC at 8) and I wanted the ants to feel my wrath. I set the valve to take only from the main drain so I could backwash for a while. I let it run for 3 min, then rinsed for 20 sec then backwashed again for another 2 min, then rinsed, then set it to filter. The pool water cleared from green to blue in the first 24 hours, but it turned VERY cloudy, and cloudy it remains. I needed to get the dead algae out of the water, I guessed.
The filter pressure, from the start, was a little higher than it was last year. Last year I recall it being 10-11 most of the time. This year it never has been below 13. But, I figured the pool is wicked dirty, its got a lot of junk passing through it, so I set my attention on the water chemistry. I began adding CYA. I know from last year that it takes a bit to show in the test, that you can lose it to backwashing, and its easy to add too much. With that in mind, I kept the filter on recirculate at night, and filter during the day (so I could watch the pressure.) All the while I dosed the pool for a SLAM, assuming 30 CYA, which was my goal. I brushed 2-3 times a day, skimmed, set the robot loose as often as possible. As much as I didn't want to, so I wouldn't lose my stabilizer, I kept having to backwash bc the pressure would shoot up to 20 or 25 sometimes, usually really quickly. I thought that was odd, and noticed a bunch of junk in the pump basket. I think it might have come in from the deep end skimmer, which was wicked gross, and I turned on last. I cleaned that out and backwashed and it was at that time I noticed that the filter was much quieter when backwashing. The pressure went down after that and did not go back up. Fluke?
When filtering, there is a "crackling" noise around the multiport. It goes away when on recirculate, backwash, or rinse. I also still have bubbles (consistently) in the pump when the shallow end skimmer valve is open alone, and the other two (deep end skimmer and main drain) are closed. In this condition, the filter pressure goes down to 12, which seems to be my "low/normal" for this season. When I open the deep end skimmer (IF I can get the water level high enough) the bubbles remain, and the pressure stays put, until I open the main drain. when the main drain is open (with or without the others, either one, the other, or both) the bubbles in the pump disappear, but the pressure goes up to 17-18, and I notice a slight shaking in the return pipes. In either case (bubbles in the pump or not) there are no bubbles (that I can see) from any of the returns. I've tried looking very closely.
I have tried pouring water on the pump lid (no change). I tried the water trick on all the valves, and all the above ground, suction side plumbing. No change. Its all relatively new (past the valves), so I'd be pretty disappointed if the pipes were leaking, but the valves are OLD. I suppose I could rebuild the valves, or at least lube them up but I'm not sure...can I do that with water in the system or do I have to shut everything down and blow water out of the lines? Is there some other test I can do? I did the soap test the first year we lived here and found leaks etc, which led to a new pump, filter, and above ground plumbing on the equipment side of the valves. Should I try plastic wrap?
Note the "*" above. I have 2 skimmers. One in the deep end, which is larger, and one in the shallow end. My pool is way out of level. I knew this, sort of, bc the pool builder mentioned it, but said it "wasn't so bad" because the structure was still sound/intact. The panels had not separated or anything. I noticed it, glaringly, when the liner went in (it has a border) because it appeared the returns and skimmers were not lined up, and then after it was filled it was REALLY obvious. I went around and measured, and the water level (a little low at the time) is 8 1/2" down from the top of the coping at the shallow end skimmer, but is 9 3/4" from the coping at the deep end skimmer. This results in the deep end skimmer being less than 1/2 full when the shallow end skimmer is at 2/3 full (where it operates best), and the water being 1" below the top step, which results in it being dirty ALL THE TIME, and, the deep end skimmer is very vulnerable to sucking air if the weather accelerates evaporation to any level above minimum. If I fill the pool so the deep end skimmer is happy (2/3-3/4 full), and the top stair is covered (as I think it should be?) then the shallow end skimmer is full to the top of the frame and it doesn't work anymore. I would be fine with this, except, I believe we have a leak. If I fill it to the very edge of the top step (as a convenient "line" to compare against) it will drop to 1" below it within 24 hrs, regardless of the weather. I have noticed it goes faster when the pump is running, but not by a significant enough amount for me to be certain the leak is in the plumbing.
This "leak" started (or, maybe got worse) last season, later in August, around the time I finally installed the Hayward Air jets on the stairs. The air jets are pretty close to the top of the stairs, so I filled the pool a little more than I had it all season and fired them up. They worked...just ok. I would have to turn the other returns off for them to work, but I kept getting water oozing out of the air control valve at the top of the stairs so I turned them "off." (Closed the valve on the pad). That's when I noticed the pool would NOT stay full enough (top stair fully submerged) to make them enjoyable. So, I screwed the air jet nozzles shut. It didn't help. The same month, we also had one of those metal shade canopies blow from our yard into the pool during a crazy wind storm. We pulled it out carefully, and looked for obvious damage, and found none. I had a good amount of anxiety about the disappearing water for the rest of the season, but, by then the weather had started to turn, everyone went back to school, and we had the pool closed.
I did not open the 2 air jet returns this season, thinking it would be a way to potentially determine if they are to blame for the disappearing water or not. I'm still losing water this season. I've gone around with dye, when the water was very still, to all the returns, skimmers, stairs, and polaris ports (2 have been repurposed for lights, the other is just chillin.) I found no obvious leaks this way, but I know this method is difficult unless you have a pretty decent leak. I have gone around the pool at night with a flashlight, shining it this angle and that, feeling slowly with my fingers, scrutinizing the liner around the level the water settles at to see if I can see or feel a defect. None so far. I have never found a wet spot anywhere in my yard or around the equipment pad.
Now, my water isn't clear despite the chemistry being ok, and I can't ever have both skimmers running, which I believe would help. I tried using skimmer socks, and they helped (we went from not being able to see the bottom at all to being able to see the shallow end clearly, and about halfway down the deep end), but...the pressure in the filter gets high so quickly I can't keep them in there enough. (I work from home 3 days a week, but still can't be out at the pool every hour just because I'm here.) I'd like to use DE in the filter, but again, I hesitate to do so because I'm not sure it won't make a bad situation worse (filter pressure.)
I don't know where to start. I've been fiddling around out there for almost 3 weeks, testing this, trying that, and I cant' clear the pool, can't figure out what the heck is happening to the water, can't figure out what's wrong with the filter, why I have bubbles, etc. I am not sure what things may be connected or coincidence. Did ants eat my spider gasket? Do I have the dreaded undergound leak? Do my skimmers need to be replaced? Or is it something less expensive/critical such as I just need to deep clean my filter? Ive stayed up until 3 am at least 2X a week reading posts here, trying to find a similar condition or set of conditions, but always end up more confused and concerned than before. Seriously, I've probably spent a solid 50 hours on this site this season. My husband wants me to call the pool co, but, I know that unless I know what's wrong (and decide I don't want to or can't fix it myself) they will just replace every part of my system and plumbing until they get lucky or I go broke. I want to do a lot more trouble shooting on my own first before I call anyone.
I've attached a pic of my bubbles. It's not a great photo because of the stinkin pollen and glare, but you can see the very consistently lentil-sized bubbles in the bottom left corner. I also attached a picture of my skimmer, which has a "seam" around the ledge where the top of the basket rests, which did not draw dye in, but I have no idea if its supposed to be there or not, and, the "rocks" that are in the second, unplumbed hole in the skimmer. Is there supposed to be a plug in there? I did not remove one, ever, but don't recall if one was there at any point.
For anyone who does not remember the saga of my pool's rehabilitation ion 2020, I will restate that my lines were pressure tested and passed. I apologize for the length of this post, but I have no idea what info is relevant vs not, so I put it all here. I can't sleep because of this stupid pool, so I'll be up for hours to answer questions, clarify, etc if somehow, the info you need isn't here.
I'll post separately about my cloudy water. That is another really sore subject...over 40 gallons of chlorine later...
