Brass Pipe Extension

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AAA96

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Mar 27, 2024
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Florida
Hello. I have an older pool and the light went bad as well as the existing 100w transformer (pool light is 12v). As I was removing all the old stuff, I noticed that the red brass 3/4” pipe coming from under the deck had broken. I have about 6” before it goes under concrete. I installed a new pentair 100w transformer and is suitable for direct connection to pool light wet nitch. My question is, how can I properly convert the brass pipe to pvc to finish the short run to the transformer box. I understand that this needs to be a watertight connection since it gets filled with water.

Also, alongside the brass pipe is a #8 copper insulated wire that was terminated into the old j-box. Should this be connected to the new metal j-box ground point inside the pentaire transformer?, is it obsolete since this is a 12v? or should it actually be connected to the bonding lug (which is connected to other equipotential grid).
 
You should be able to solder on a threaded fitting and then transition to PVC conduit.

If you have end to end metal conduit, that can be the grounding required.

The supplemental ground wire is only required for 120 volt lights.

Most 12 volt lights are listed for use without a supplemental #8 ground wire.

I would just solder on a female adaptor and then transition to PVC using a PVC male adaptor.

Note: This is just my opinion and I am not able to give you specific advice about what will meet local codes.

Verify all design and installation choices with a licensed local electrician to make sure everything is done correctly, safely and to full code compliance.
 
Last edited:
JamesW said:
You should be able to solder on a threaded fitting and then transition to PVC conduit.

If you have end to end metal conduit, that can be the grounding required.

The supplemental ground wire is only required for 120 volt lights.

Most 12 volt lights are listed for use without a supplemental #8 ground wire.

I would just solder on a female adaptor and then transition to PVC using a PVC male adaptor.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the recommendations. I think that is what I am going to do.

In another topic, as far as bonding goes, I have my pool pump case bonded to the autopilot frame, which is connected to the wire (seen in previous photo for nitch), as well as a lug on the brass pipe with all #8 bare copper (except the nitch wire which is insulated). They are all connected to a ground rebar rod that goes +8ft vertically into earth. Is this correct? If so, is there anything else that should be bonded to this grid? (Water?, skimmer?).
 
That brass conduit and the metal light niche are probably part of the water bond.

In the US, the bonding grid is not connected to a grounding rod at the equipment pad.
Check with your local authority for their required bonding and grounding requirements.
 
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JamesW said:
I would recommend that you verify all designs with a local electrician before making final plans.

Local codes need to be followed completely and I cannot tell you for sure exactly what will or will not meet local codes.

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...

My plan was to get it all done and wired. Before filling the pool and turning on the power, I was going to have a local electrician come and verify.

Just wanted to get a leg up on the bonding part so I can have it done before they come.
 
Your system is old and unusual.

I would refer you to an electrician to verify design choices before and after installation.

If you get the work completed without getting approval from an electrician first, you might have to redo some of the work if they say it is not code compliant.
 
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(2) Wiring Extending Directly to the Forming Shell.

Conduit shall be installed from the forming shell to a junction box or other enclosure conforming to the requirements in 680.24.

Conduit shall be rigid metal, intermediate metal, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic, or rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit.

Metal Conduit.

Metal conduit shall be listed and shall be red brass or stainless steel.

Informational Note: See UL 6A, Electrical Rigid Metal Conduit - Aluminum, Red Brass, and Stainless Steel, for information on the listing criteria for red brass and stainless steel conduit.

Nonmetallic Conduit.

Where a nonmetallic conduit is used, an 8 AWG insulated solid or stranded copper bonding jumper shall be installed in this conduit unless a listed low-voltage lighting system not requiring grounding is used.

The bonding jumper shall be terminated in the forming shell, junction box or transformer enclosure, or ground-fault circuit-interrupter enclosure.

The termination of the 8 AWG bonding jumper in the forming shell shall be covered with, or encapsulated in, a listed potting compound to protect the connection from the possible deteriorating effect of pool water.
 
680.23(B)(1) Forming Shells.

Forming shells shall be installed for the mounting of all wet-niche underwater luminaires and shall be equipped with provisions for conduit entries.

Metal parts of the luminaire and forming shell in contact with the pool water shall be of brass or other approved
corrosion-resistant metal.

All forming shells used with nonmetallic conduit systems, other than those that are part of a listed low-voltage lighting system not requiring grounding, shall include provisions for terminating an 8 AWG copper conductor.

680.23(B)(2) Wiring Extending Directly to the Forming Shell.

Conduit shall be installed from the forming shell to a junction box or other enclosure conforming to the requirements in 680.24.

Conduit shall be rigid metal, intermediate metal, Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic, or rigid nonmetallic.

1. Metal Conduit. Metal conduit shall be listed and identified as red brass or stainless steel.

2. Nonmetallic Conduit.

Where a nonmetallic conduit is used, an 8 AWG insulated solid or stranded copper bonding jumper shall be installed in this conduit unless a listed low-voltage lighting system not requiring grounding is used.

The bonding jumper shall be terminated in the forming shell, junction box or transformer enclosure, or ground-fault circuit-interrupter enclosure.

The termination of the 8 AWG bonding jumper in the forming shell shall be covered with, or encapsulated in, a listed potting compound to protect the connection from the possible deteriorating effect of pool water.

An 8 AWG insulated copper bonding jumper is required to be installed in the conduit to provide electrical continuity between the forming shell and the junction box or other enclosure.

This bonding conductor is in addition to the EGC required by 680.23(F)(2).

The function of this conductor is twofold: (1) It permanently bonds all non–current-carrying metal surfaces of the forming shell to any non–current-carrying parts of the deck box and to the EGC of the circuit that supplies the wet-niche luminaire, and (2) it serves as the path for ground-fault current in the event of a ground fault when the wet-niche luminaire is removed from the forming shell, which is typically done during relamping.

Damage to the wet-niche luminaire supply cord could result in such a ground-fault scenario.

Low-voltage lighting systems that are listed for installation without an EGC or a bonding conductor are exempt from this requirement.
 
So, if I understand this correctly, the #8 conductor to the back of the nitch is supposed to terminate inside the junction box where all the EGC’s terminate so they are all grounded/bonded together all the way back to the main breaker panel.

Additional water bonding should not be necessary since the metal surfaces of the light and nitch are in contact with the water (which is in turn bonded/grounded as previously stated).
 
There should be a Ground Lug inside the light niche that is used for a supplemental ground wire for 120 volt lights.

If you use a 120 volt light, you need a metal conduit or a supplemental ground wire (#8 green insulated) from the ground lug inside the niche to the ground bar inside the junction box.

Low voltage lighting that is listed as not requiring a ground does not need a ground wire or metal conduit.

There is also a Bond Lug on the outside of the niche and that requires a #8 bare copper wire that connects the niche to the bonding grid.

A metal niche creates a water bond.

Plastic niches have a metal strip inside that creates a water bond.
 
Be sure to consult with an electrician well versed in pool bonding requirements.
Seems many regular electricians have little knowledge of bonding requirements.
 
So the entire concept of bonding all metal (consequently water as well) together in and around the pool is to ultimately terminate it to the junction box ground, which in turn runs to the gfci breaker (either sub panel or main panel). That was if there is any voltage change across any of it, it would trip the gfci breaker. Is this correct?
 
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