Brand New Circupool RJ30+ Issues.

[Divin Dave]

Hey you guys,
If any of you mods or anyone else who reads this post know any Circupool folks that I ordered this RJ30+ SWG from that participate on TFP forum, please point them to my post.

This past weekend I replaced my Pentair IC 40 with a Circupool RJ+30.
I am struggling to figure out why I'm getting a Low Salt Alarm and its just weird to me what I'm observing.
In my mind it doesn't make sense, and I'm leaning heavily toward a complaint to Customer Service about it.
But before I do I want to post my experience to see if any of you guys have had same or similar experience?

and if you did go to Customer Service, were they receptive to the issue and sincerely work with you to resolve the problem?

So here goes.. I get long winded, so bear with me.
Pool Chemistry with my TF 100, fresh reagents, and Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kits (2 of them, one from last year, and a brand new one for this year, exp date 2022).
Water Temp is 90° F
Salt 3700, FC 6. CC 0. pH 7.4, CYA 50, TA 70,
My Salt level in the pool is 3700 ppm. I tested it with both by Taylor Salt K1766 Kits. Same results with both.
Salt has been mixed in the water for more than a week prior to firing up the new Circupool RJ+30

A couple of notes,
- My pump is a Pentair 3 HP VSP.
- Trippers of the Intermatic Timer to the SWG are removed, so it doesnt mistakenly remove power from SWG.
- Couple of things to note about my plumbing- All my above ground exposed plumbing is 2" SCH 40. All bends are 90° sweep elbows. I would post a pic, but forgot how. Maybe I can get one up tomorrow evening.

So......this is the description I can give of how my cell and flow switch are located in the plumbing.
-The Flow Switch is installed on a Vertical Return Pipe.
The pipe continues vertically from the flow switch for about 8 inches, then makes a Right Hand 90° bend and transitions to Horizontal.
- The Cell is mounted Horizontally in the "UP position. (with the power cord on the top and the cell )
"direction" is oriented per the installation instructions - the end with the power cord towards the controller".
From the cells exit union, there is 2 more inches of pipe, then a 90° bend down then about 6 more inches of conduit, into the Return Manifold Tee.

My observations and Trials so far.

Initial Power Up Sunday June 13
1. Turn SWG unit on. I got several of alarms which I expect. Im sure it take a few minutes to calibrate itself.
- Low Salt, Cell Maintenance are lit up red, low flow, and whatever else it was. I let it run for a few minutes.......
- Observation of the cell. I see water flowing through the cell. With my VSP pump at 1200 RPM, the plates in the cell are not completely submerged in water. They are only about 60% submerged.
- I recycle the power on the SWG, all faults clear except for the Low Salt Alarm
-After a minute or two, I see gassy bubbles at the output end of the cell. The low salt alarm is still on. (While I wasn't looking, the Generate Light came on and turned green).
- I do not see any water turbulence at the output of the cell that might be caused by the 90° bend down taking the water to the return manifold.
Question / Thoughts - is it good for the cell if the plates are not completely submerged?
Does anyone know for sure if the plates need to be completely submerged for the cell to work correctly and efficiently?
Question -Does anyone else with a Circupool RJ+ have a cell without the plates completely submerged in water? If so, have you had any issues with it

2. I recycle the SWG power to see if that clears the alarms and lets the SWG power up and start operating.
- The Generate light is on and green.
- The Cell Maintenance alarm is cleared.
- Low Flow alarm cleared along with whatever else it was that was lit up.
- Low Salt alarm is still on and illuminated Red, but I still see gassy bubbles being made in the cell which indicates to me Chlorine is being produced.
- I toggle through the menu to explore it and I set the output of the SWG to 95%. (I don't want it timing out while I'm investigating).
- I see the cell amp reading at about -4.5 amps ish (I don't remember to the digit, what it was).
- The Salinity Now readout says the Salt content is 2450. (cause of the low salt alarm????)
- The Salt Average says 2600
- I thought to myself that maybe it didnt run long enough to calibrate itself...

3. I also thought since the cell plates are not completely submerged, that may be the cause of the Low Salt alarm.
- I increase my VSP pump speed just enough to fill the cell and submerge the plates, it takes 1700 RPM, and about 400 ish watts to completely submerge the plates.
Comment - for the last 8 yrs, I only needed 1200 RPM to have enough flow for the IC40 and the conduit configuration and position of the IC40 was the same as the RJ+..... so hum.... I can only surmise that for years, the IC 40 operated fine with the plates only partially submerged in water.

4. I let the system run for 30 minutes.
- Came back and recycled the SWG Power.
- Generate Light is Green
- Low Salt Alarm is OFF
- Cell making gassy bubbles
- I thought it was working, and reduce output to 20%
- Salinity Average reports 2800
- Salinity Now reports 2600
- While watching the Salinity Now, the readout value is dropping by increments of 10ppm. It drops by 10 every 2 or 3 seconds. After just a few minutes, the Salinity Now dropped down to 2450, and the Low Salt alarm illuminates Red and I let out a flurry of swear words!

5. I increased the output back to 95% and let it run for a couple of hours. After a couple of hours I go back out and observe the following on the Circupool RJ+
- Low Salt Alarm is OFF
- Generating Light is Green
- Average salinity is 2950
- Salinity now shows 2850 and I thought all was good except for the reported salinity of 2900 ish, vs. the actual 3700ppm that is actually in the pool.
- I reduce the output to 20% and call it an evening.

6. Monday morning I go out and check it.
- The low Salt Alarm is illuminated Red, and I swear again.
- I check the Salinity Average and it says 2500
- I check the Salt Now and it reports 2450 - grrrr

7. as an experiment, I increase the output back to 95%
- Turn off the SWG for 10 minutes and turn it back on.
- Let it run. It was a few hours before I got time to play with it again. After a few hours...
- Generating Light is Green and the Low Salt alarm is off.
- Salt Average 2800
- Salinity Now 2800 and dropping by 10 ppm, but slowly this time. Over a period of a few hours, the Salinity Now dropped from 2800 to 2650.
- at 2650, there isnt a Low Salt alarm.
- I called it an evening and continue to let the SWG run overnight at 95% output

8. Tuesday morning I check it again. Output still at 95%
- Low Salt Alarm is illuminated Red.
- Salinity AVG 2500
- Salinity Now 2450
- Turned off the power to the SWG
- Didn't fool with it anymore this day

9. Wednesday morning (today June 16)
- Turned on the Power to the SWG
- Low Salt alarm cleared
- Generating Green Light On
- I see gassy bubbles being made
- Salinity Average 2700
- Salinity Now 2700
- Reduce output from 95 to 20%
- Let it run for a few hours to see what happens

10. Today around 3 PM ish.
- Low Salt Alarm is on and turned Red
- Generating light is On.
- Salinity Average 2500
- Salinity Now is 2500
- The cell is making gassy bubbles with the Low Salt alarm on, and salinity report of the controller below what it actually is. I guess I got lucky and caught this at the time the system is actually supposed to be producing chlorine.

11. Around 8 PM this evening.
- Recycled SWG power
- Increased output to 95%
- No Alarms
- Generating Green light is ON
- Salt Average 2500
- Salinity Now 2850,

12. 10:45 PM this evening. Checked it again
- No alarms
- Generating Green Light is on
- Output is 95%
- Salt Average 2600
- Salinity Now 2850
- producing gassy bubbles
- I reduced output to 20% and will let it run overnight to see what happens.

So after this long winded post, have any of you folks experienced anything like this? To summariz the main points.
The Salinity Now reported by the controller is 900 - 1000 lower than the actual salt content of the water?
Have any of you with a RJ+ suffered reoccurring low salt alarms? If so, how did you resolve it. Or did it get resolved?

EDIT - Continued from the above post I made last night.

Thursday 6/17
- with the output at 20%, its luck to catch the SWG at the time its making chlorine and be able to check the low salt alarm and other things I want to capture. But I got lucky at 5:30 PM.
- Generating light on
- Low Salt alarm off
- No other alarms
- Salt average 2500
- Salinity Now 2680 and stable. Not dropping 10ppm like has been doing since I originally fired it up.
- Cell Amperage 4.7
- I am leaving it at the same 20% output and will continue to monitor and update this post as the progress continues.

Edit to continue from yesterday.

Friday- 6/18
- The SWG seems to be holding steady. I checked it several times today.
- Now Low Salt alarms
- Salt Now Average 2600
- Salinity Now holding steady at 2780.

So after 2 days without any alarms, I am hopeful the SWG is finally going to hold steady and won't require a call to customer service. So Im going to end this post here unless or until further problems pop up.

My take away's. After operating the IC 40 system for 8 years, and helping 2 friends install Other Brands of SWG on their pools and repair 1 Hayward Thermistor...
- I am not happy with the RJ+
- The 900 - 1000 ppm difference between the SWG and my Taylor Test kit is too much.
- My unit, takes too long to settle in or break in. I suppose thats what happen, and
several days is way too long.
- The Cover that opens up on the front of the controller is way too tight. I can't pull it open
with just my fingers. I have to use a very small screw driver to slightly pry it, and then it will
pop open.
- I love the User Interface of the controller. The controls are super intuitive and easy to use
- I like the clear cell a lot. Being able to see whats going on inside is an A +++
- At this time, I wish I had not purchased the Circupool SWG
- I will not recommend the Circupool RJ+system to anyone.

I suspect that if increase the salt content in my pool from 3700 to what ?? 4K? 4200? the Salt Average and Salinity Now which the SWG system displays will increase.

 

[Oly]

Your cell is on a horizontal pipe, is the cell rotated so the "bulge" is down? It describes this position for efficient generation at low flow levels in the manual on page 15 I believe. Not sure about your other issues but I have observed a wide range of salt readings from my unit, but have not experienced any red lights. My cell is mounted vertically and the flows switch is downstream on the vertical.

 

[Divin Dave]

Your cell is on a horizontal pipe, is the cell rotated so the "bulge" is down? It describes this position for efficient generation at low flow levels in the manual on page 15 I believe. Not sure about your other issues but I have observed a wide range of salt readings from my unit, but have not experienced any red lights. My cell is mounted vertically and the flows switch is downstream on the vertical.

Hi Oly
Thanks for the reply. Now that you mention it, I recall reading about rotating the cell so the bulge is down. With trying to figure out the Low Salt alarm, It slipped my mind. I will keep it in mind and rotate the thing. That should let me run at a more desireable flow and RPM.

 

[DeanP66]

Divin' Dave,

Were you able to resolve your issues? One other thing you didn't mention is your water temp on the unit. A couple of people have commented that if the temp reading is off, it can affect the salinity reading. If that is the case, you can change a jumper on the mainboard that controls how the unit gets it temp reading. It comes from the factory set to read from a sensor in the cell. Switching the jumper on the main board changes it to the control unit.

I'm having a similar issue with a friend of mine's RJ45+. The low salt light keeps coming on and I've checked and rechecked with same test kit as yours. I even added 3 bags and am right at 4000ppm salt. I've noticed that when the SWG is generating, the salt reading keeps going down and down. It barely seems to stay above 2700ppm. The water temp comes in about 10 degrees higher that what the manual thermometer reads in the pool. I will be trying the jumper switch today on her mainboard and see what happens.

 

[superuser]

tl;dr

Good advice offered so far, only thing I'd add is to make sure you orient the cell so the power cord is on the water entry end of the cell.

 

[Oly]

I have been operating and observing my CP RJ60+ for a nearly 3 months now and have noted a few observations. I also have cleaned my cell two times due to "low salt" and" "cell maint" lights.
My pool water salt level is 4000-4200ppm as tested by the Taylor K-1766. My source water TA is 175 ppm with CH at 110ppm and my pH will stabilize at 7.9 until I add fill water. My pool water TA is at 70ppm but obviously will rise when topping off. I was keeping my pH at 7.8-7.9 when using liquid without issues and at the start of the SWG operation.

The salt readings on my unit when new began to drop after several weeks and I did observe scaling on the cell plates. My cell readings were below 3000ppm after 60 days. I soon began to see the low salt light flicker and then the system shut down with the cell maint light on. I was also getting calcium solids from my return lines that accumulated on the pool bottom. I cleaned the cell. After re-installation of the cleaned cell my cell salt readings were 4000ppm but soon began to drop as before. I lowered my pool water pH to 7.6 but my fill water frequency increased due to mid summer in central CA. Water temps increased and I did notice a 5 or 6 degree difference higher in the cell reading vs my temp gauge but I only use the skimmer and surface water is a higher temp than my temp gauge well below the surface. After 50 days my cell was again reading low salt and I noticed the amperage draw was getting below 6amps. These readings were lower when my pump was running at a higher rpm. When I lowered the pump rpm while the SWG was operating, the cell salt reading increased slightly as did the amperage draw but eventually my low salt light was on and I had to remove and clean the cell again. Again after cleaned my cell salinity was 4000ppm and amperage draw above 6.4.

Now after the second cleaning I have been keeping my pH at 7.4 and adding enough acid to keep it there every time I top off my pool, I add about 1" of water every 10 days on average, peak season. My pH has been in the 7.4-7.5 range now for several weeks and the cell salt reading is holding at 3600ppm with amperage draw above 6.4. The situation seems to be better now and related to my pH being lower. I also slowed down my pump speeds (1450rpm) when my cell in operating and only increase to 2200rpm an hour prior to the SWG starting and during the last half hour of cell run time. I still observe some calcium solids from my returns but less and not as solid. I do see an improvement after keeping the pH below 7.5 and treating the water with acid while topping off the pool with the high TA water. Once my pH is lowered during the topping off it may require one additional small adjustment but will stabilize until its time to top off again. I may try dropping the pH to 7.2 initially and letting it settle at 7.4 or 7.5 I suspect these acid additions will decrease as my fill demand decreased. I have seen the info about adding 50ppm boron and may try that, but not yet.

My Pool Math CSI calcs have me at -0.6 now, while when using liquid I was near 0 or slightly below. My observations so far.

 

[DeanP66]

Oly, you are definitely a candidate for adding borates. Your pH is drifting high very quickly and in the cell the pH is even higher. I added borates this season to my pool and my friend's as well. She was having all kinds of scaling issues last year, but most of that was due to her high CH (600ppm). Even keeping the CSI slightly negative with low pH and low TA didn't seem to control the scaling.

After adding borates this year, her cell hasn't had any scaling at all and the kicker is that her CH is now up to 800 because of her hard fill water. She's having a similar issue with the low salt light tripping, but hopefully I solved that today when I opened up her control unit and moved the temp jumper from pins 1-2 to 2-3. She was getting temp readings 10 degrees higher than her manual thermometer.