Black algae and brown "dirt" stains

[maddog808]

Thanks FPM. I will try to test my salt with another source. Maybe we will get another one of those nasty dust storms and I will have to backwash 20 - 30% of my pool water out again. :lol:

Dave, thx for catching my mistake. I edited it to say 2011. Anyway, I guess I will test again tonight and come up with a plan to get the water balanced. Thanks again for all your help, guys.

 

[maddog808]

Updated test result just before sunset:
FC -- 13.5
CC -- .5
Is this acceptable FC loss due to sunlight exposure here in AZ? Or should I continue to shock? If I don't have algae anymore, is it safe to swim with this much FC? I am really excited about having accurate testing now. This forum is awesome. I usually research everything online. I am totally kicking myself for not finding TFP, BBB, and TF100 3 years ago.

 

[Butterfly]

The amount of FC loss is more dramatic coming down from shock level, rather than running at normal FC levels for your CYA.

Under normal conditions, your daily FC loss will probably be around 2ppm.

You passed the overnight test last night, correct? You can do the test again tonight, if you feel at all unsure.

Lots of us feel comfy swimming in FC levels that are above the minimum and below shock level for the CYA level.
So your's is good to go for swimming, IMHO.

As a reminder, the CYA needs to be raised.

 

[maddog808]

The amount of FC loss is more dramatic coming down from shock level, rather than running at normal FC levels for your CYA.

Under normal conditions, your daily FC loss will probably be around 2ppm.

You passed the overnight test last night, correct? You can do the test again tonight, if you feel at all unsure.

Lots of us feel comfy swimming in FC levels that are above the minimum and below shock level for the CYA level.
So your's is good to go for swimming, IMHO.

As a reminder, the CYA needs to be raised.

Butterfly,

So should I add CYA first, then try to get my CH and salt down? Then add borates? Or should I take care of the CH and salt first, which will lower my CYA. Then raise CYA, balance pH and TA, get to a target FC level, then add borates (and acid, of course)? Asuming I pass the overnight test again tonight, and the algae is dead; what should be my plan of attack for the overall water balancing and eventually adding borates?

Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. I've been so focused on killing the algae...I'm just not sure if it matters in what order I tackle the other stuff. :?

Thanks for your help.

 

[maddog808]

Another overnight FC loss test 10.5 hours later:

FC -- 12.5
CC -- 0
pH -- 7.5
salt -- 5600
What's next?

 

[duraleigh]

Another overnight FC loss test 10.5 hours later:

FC -- 12.5
CC -- 0
pH -- 7.5
salt -- 5600
What's next?

Maddog, not to single you out because this is a fairly common occurence.......that is an incomplete post on your overnite FC loss test.

The overnite FC loss compares a very accurate reading in the evening to a very accurate reading in the early AM with nochlorine additions in between. The results should look something like this.

Tested 7:30PM Tuesday night
FC = 8.5ppm

Tested 6:30AM Wednesday morning
FC = 7.0ppm

Overnight FC loss - 1.5ppm

This particular example has a loss of 1.5ppm so, in this case, the shock/clearing process needs to continue until the overnight loss is 1.0 or less

 

[maddog808]

Dave,
Sorry. I assumed you would see my previous post from last night:

Updated test result just before sunset (Thursday 7:00 PM):
FC -- 13.5
CC -- .5

Another overnight FC loss test 10.5 hours later (Friday, 5:30 AM):

FC -- 12.5
CC -- 0
pH -- 7.5
salt -- 5600
What's next?

I will include both test results within the same post next time with exact day and time.

Again, thanks for the heads up, Dave. Any suggestions on what to do next, though?

 

[Butterfly]

As for the salt, I think you are reading it correctly and it's very likely that Leslie's screwed up - Pool Store testing is notorius for that - and now the salt level is very high. I don't know enough about SWGs to know if this level is too high for your unit though, does your manual specify the upper range limit?

I suggest we get the salt issue resolved first.

 

[duraleigh]

Any suggestions on what to do next, though?

Well, it appears you have met the three criteria for completion of the shock process.....
1. Your pool water is sparkling
2. Your CC's are .5ppm or less
3. You can hold your FC overnight without losing more than 1ppm.

Looks like you can let your FC drift down into the 3-5ppm range and enjoy the rest of the summer. If I remember, your CYA was just a little low so you could consider bringing it up to around 70. I'd wait a bit until you figure out what percentage your SWG is running to maintain that 3-5ppm FC.

It looks like you've done a great job getting your pool in shape. What about your salt level. Did you confirm it? Is your SWG producing chlorine?

RE: FC loss test
Those of us that post often look at the forum from the "view new posts" screen. We don't review each thread but rather go to the end of the thread and view the last post made. It is hard to remember everyone's "story" so it's helpful to review just a bit each time you post.

 

[maddog808]

Thanks Butterfly and Dave for the super quick responses today! :-D

As for the salt, I think you are reading it correctly and it's very likely that Leslie's screwed up - Pool Store testing is notorius for that - and now the salt level is very high. I don't know enough about SWGs to know if this level is too high for your unit though, does your manual specify the upper range limit?

I suggest we get the salt issue resolved first.

What doesn't make sense is that the owner's manual for my SWG says that anything above 4000 ppm will make the salt level LED light BLINK green. If the salt level is between 2900-3900, then the light stays green (not blinking), which is how mine is now. :?

I have now done 3 tests with the strips from 2 different bottles purchased from an Ebay store called A1 pool supply. ( I didn't know Duraleigh had them or I would have gotten them from him). All three tests were consistently above 5600 ppm. I will try Leslies again just for ther heck of it. They probably miss me there.

It looks like you've done a great job getting your pool in shape. What about your salt level. Did you confirm it? Is your SWG producing chlorine?

Dave, thanks for the vote of confidence. My SWG does produce chlorine, but I have had it off since I bought the bleach and started shocking. It's still off now, and my pump has been running 24/7 also. Something doesn't add up here, because even if my salt level was at 3400 before adding any, it would take 325 lbs to get it to 5830 according to Jason's pool calc. I know my salt was low before i added any, because the red LED was on, indicating that it was below 2500, and therefore not producing chlorine-- which got me in trouble with the algae in the first place! But even if my SWG and Leslie's test were wrong, I only added 200 lbs of salt. That means my salt level would have been at 4340 before adding the salt to bring it up to 5830. I guess maybe I shouldn't have bought salt test strips on Ebay, huh? Maybe I will order a bottle from someone else , and try it out so I can get my sanity back.

Since I got rid of the algae, should this topic be moved to a different forum, like "testing and balancing your water"? Let me know what you guys think.

1. Your pool water is sparkling

Thanks Dave, but I think it can look better. What about borates? Should I wait until I get the salt and CYA figured out before I add all that 20 mule team borax and muriatic acid that's sitting in my garage?

 

[duraleigh]

Should I wait until I get the salt and CYA figured out before I add all that 20 mule team borax and muriatic acid that's sitting in my garage?

Yeah, I would, Matt. Borates is an optomizer rather than a necessary part of your pool water chemistry. I doubt it will help in cleaning any residual cloudiness you have in your pool. Filtering, backwashing/cleaning, and constant adequate levels of chlorine are the best way to get your pool really sparkling.

I would suggest resolving your salt issue.....it really does sound like bad strips but I have never heard of the aqua check strips (with a good date) performing like that.

Once that's put to rest, you will have had several days for your pool to be in "normal" mode so you can judge how everything is settling in. Once you get comfortable that your [pool is stable (and clear), then you can address the borates.

PS - You don't want to move the thread. It is a "story" that makes the most sense left alone.

 

[maddog808]

I would suggest resolving your salt issue.....it really does sound like bad strips but I have never heard of the aqua check strips (with a good date) performing like that.

Well I took another sample to the pool store to test for salt, and he looked at me kinda funny after he put the meter in my pool water. I said I just got these Aquacheck salt test strips from A1 Pool and Spa Supply on Ebay, and that they were reading at 5600. He nodded and said "5600, exactly". He also said the meter he was using was brand new. They had to replace the one they were using because it was showing EVERYONE had low salt levels. So when they told me it was at 2300 2 weeks ago, it was probably at around 3300. I added 200 lbs, because I thought I had a 16,000 gallon pool, and I wanted to go from 2300 to 3800. I just now realized I have been calculating my pool volume wrong this whole time!!
I went out back and re-measured my pool dimensions VERY carefully this time, and also took into consideration that our spa and our "beach" area are significantly more shallow than our average 4.5 foot depth. So what I thought was 16000 gallons is more like 10,000 or so!

I think my salt mystery is solved. I added 200 lbs of salt to a 10000 gallon pool that was at around 3300 ppm. This brought me up to around 5700 ppm. At least I know my salt test strips are accurate. What still doesn't make sense is why my IC40 SWG was reading "LOW", and not producing chlorine if I had 3300 ppm (when Leslie's said I had 2300) :?: Then it said "ADD" when Leslie's said I was at 2900. Then after I added those last 80 lbs, it has been at "GOOD" consistently. What kind of weird coincidence is it that my SWG is just as wrong as Leslie's was in regards to my salt level?

I just found another member's post on here that had the same problem as me with his IC40. He posted a link to Field Calibrate instructions. I will try that, and hopefully that works for me. It didn't for him, and Pentair replaced his SWG under warranty. I just found the receipt for mine, and it has been out of warranty since last December. Wish me luck. I really need to get this SWG figured out if I want to maintain 5 ppm FC with my CYA at 70 ppm.

In a way I am thankful I had the horrible algae problem, because it has led me here, which has in turn gotten me to learn a whole lot more about my pool!! Thanks everyone!! :-D I'm off to dilute and backwash my pool water to bring the salt level back down to 3800. But first I need to change my signature from 16000 to 10,000 gallon pool. I will post updated test results once my salt is good.

 

[Butterfly]

You certainaly have learned a LOT more about your pool :lol: :lol:
.....and are taking control

 

[maddog808]

I filled the pool to the top (and drained back down) twice. I think I am good now to leave the salt where it is. My CH also came down, which is good, right?

Updated test results at 2:30 PM:
FC - 6 ppm
CC - .5 ppm
pH - 7.6
TA - 105
CH - 350
CYA - 40
Salt - 4160

The CH test is a tricky one.

Be sure you are swirling the solution for a full 2030 seconds in between drops. If you did the test correctly to achieve 470, then you should have taken approx 10-15 minutes to perform the test.....

If you get a purple endpoint or "floaties" (which you will recognize if you see) then follow these testing instructions:

Add 6 drops of reagent 3 (the titrant) FIRST and swirl to mix then proceed with the normal procedure. Be sure to include the first 6 drops you added in the final count of drops.

As for the salt, I think you are reading it correctly and it's very likely that Leslie's screwed up - Pool Store testing is notorius for that - and now the salt level is very high. I don't know enough about SWGs to know if this level is too high for your unit though, does your manual specify the upper range limit?

Wow, FPM. I had no idea how long it took to test for CH!! I did like you said, and still got some "floaties" and a purple endpoint after 26 drops.

[attachment=1:texsverh]IMG_2940.JPG[/attachment:texsverh]

Then I added more and ended up with a more blue endpoint and not so many floaties (after 35 drops). The test took about 20 minutes.

[attachment=0:texsverh]IMG_2941.JPG[/attachment:texsverh]

So now I will add enough CYA to get me to 70. My manual says between 50 and 75; pool school says between 70 and 80 for SWG's. I read on here somewhere that you put it in a sock and place the sock in front of a return jet. Is this just a regular, worn out sock from by bedroom dresser?

Once I am done getting the CYA up to par, can I follow the directions in this link to get my borates up to 50 ppm?

so-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-why-and-how-t4921.html

You certainaly have learned a LOT more about your pool
.....and are taking control

I actually DO feel like I am taking control...thanks to all you guys here. It's amazing how easy this stuff is with the right tools and some POP!!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Yup, tube sock from the dresser. I would add enough to reach 70.

You are taking control. If you feel you are ready to tackle borates, then go for it.

Great pics btw, perfect example for folks to see and compare. Good job!

 

[maddog808]

OK. I finally felt comfortable enough to add all the borax and acid today. My pH was 7.4 before I started, and it is now at 7.7. My TA was at 75, now it is at 90. My question is, should I add enough acid to bring my TA down to 70 or so, then aerate to raise pH back up to 7.6? Or should I give it a few days to fully mix in and settle, then retest and post results?

I am also waiting till tomorrow to retest my CYA. I added what the pool calc said would raise it to 70 ppm last Monday. I tried testing 2 days later, and it showed my CYA actually went down 5-10 ppm! Is this normal if you don't wait to retest :?: I let the filter run for 72 hours after adding the CYA. I plan to do the same now that I have added the borates.

Also, I did a field calibrate on my SWG, and it is producing chlorine very efficiently now.

Thanks again for all your help everyone!!

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

You should never add acid to lower the TA by that amount, because it would lower the PH way too low and aerating doesn't work fast enough to raise it. You should add enough acid to lower the PH, and the TA falls too, slightly. It may be harder now that the borates are in to make small adjustments. You can try 7.0-7.2 for the PH. As long as your TA is under 90 you should have fairly stable PH now with your SWG.

 

[maddog808]

You should never add acid to lower the TA by that amount, because it would lower the PH way too low and aerating doesn't work fast enough to raise it. You should add enough acid to lower the PH, and the TA falls too, slightly. It may be harder now that the borates are in to make small adjustments. You can try 7.0-7.2 for the PH. As long as your TA is under 90 you should have fairly stable PH now with your SWG.

So do you mean I should add enough acid to lower my pH to 7.0-7.2, and wherever the TA falls, leave it? Then aerate to raise the pH back up to 7.6 or so?

FWIW, last time I lowered the TA & pH with acid, the pH dropped to 7.1. I only had to run my waterfall for 3 hours and aerater (SP?) for 8 hours to raise it back up to 7.6. Does this sound about right?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Yes, I would lower it to 7.2 ish and leave all alone, don't bother to aerate to raise it back up. The PH may creep up slowly on it's own as you use your SWG. If it does reach 7.8, just lower it back down to 7.2 with acid again, each time the TA will drop slightly. I think you'll find things are more stable with the borates in the water.

 

[maddog808]

Yes, I would lower it to 7.2 ish and leave all alone, don't bother to aerate to raise it back up. The PH may creep up slowly on it's own as you use your SWG. If it does reach 7.8, just lower it back down to 7.2 with acid again, each time the TA will drop slightly. I think you'll find things are more stable with the borates in the water.

I am a little confused. In the Pool School, under "Water Balance for SWG's", it says to lower pH to 7.5-7.6 and not any lower. Why do you want me to lower it to 7.2 each time it reaches 7.8?

As far as the CYA, I added 5 cups (2.5 lbs.) 8 days ago, and my test still shows 40 ppm?? Would adding the borates yesterday make my CYA test results this inaccurate? Or should I add more CYA then retest in a week?

Thanks again FPM. :-D