Bio-Active CYA Reducer trial

Wow I just read every post in this thread and I have to commend you on your hard work and detailed testing and documentation of the results.

Im curious as I live in the south but you mentioned you not able to drain and refill your pool due to drought. Can you explain this to me? Is it that you can only use so much water a month? If so what is the fine involved in going over the allowed limit?

If I understand it correctly you are almost $200 worth of CYA reducer with plenty of time spend testing and documenting the results, this may sound extreme but buy a 5 gallon bucket from HD knock on each neighbors door and offer them a dollar to fill it up.

That's crazy man I hope you get it straight soon!

Wayne

This situation has been bad, and is about to get more extreme in CA. Lots of over-stabilized pools and tight restrictions on water. So, Interest in this product has been quite lively. Unfortunately, results have been less than stellar. Still, something is needed.
 
Wow I just read every post in this thread and I have to commend you on your hard work and detailed testing and documentation of the results.

Im curious as I live in the south but you mentioned you not able to drain and refill your pool due to drought. Can you explain this to me? Is it that you can only use so much water a month? If so what is the fine involved in going over the allowed limit?

If I understand it correctly you are almost $200 worth of CYA reducer with plenty of time spend testing and documenting the results, this may sound extreme but buy a 5 gallon bucket from HD knock on each neighbors door and offer them a dollar to fill it up.

That's crazy man I hope you get it straight soon!

Wayne

Day 29 results: Still No Joy 8^((

Water temp 68F Water clear, no algae

FC=1.0 (adjusted up to 4.0 after testing today)
PH=7.8
CYA=400

I re-ran the CYA test using just tap water (again) to ensure there was not something in the tap water causing high CYA readings with my 3:1 dilution. Result with pure tap water was CYA <<35. The filled column in the Taylor K2006 tester was completely clear. So I have re-confirmed that the tap water is not skewing the results.

CYA test day 29.jpg




To answer 27What's questions:

I live in Northern California (Silicon Valley Area). My water utility is EBMUD. We have a severe drought condition. EBMUD has declared a stage 4 drought emergency. Several restrictions, penalties, surcharges, and higher water rates have been instituted. I have a relatively large lawn, garden and landscaped area which takes a substantial amount of water to survive. Just one of many restrictions is a capped maximum monthly water amount that works out to about 30K gallons per month. In past years during the summer I have run close to that limit for just inside use, outside watering and normal pool fill. At a CYA of 400, I'd have to do close to 90% drain of the pool to lower the CYA to about 40, which would cause me to blow through the monthly allotment. In addition to the increased rates and surcharges (25%) there is a "water abuser" penalty for use over the monthly cap. Our water is very high quality, coming from snow melt in the Sierras. But the reserves are so low, that high priced, lower quality water is being added to our reservoirs now. I figured that a total drain and refill would cost several hundred bucks and engender the wrath of EBMUD and my neighbors. There is a real concern that if the drought continues for another year, we may simple run out of water in 2016. In any event, there is strong financial, social, and political pressure to cut water usage by more than 25%.

I was trying to be a "good guy" and not do a drain and refill. I saw the BA-CYA product in the local pool store and decided to give it a try.

Almost all my neighbors are in the same boat I'm in, so finding 200 nieghbors to donate 5 gallons each would be a challenge (and a lot of water schlupping)! 8^))

I've lived here for 35 years and never expected the water utility to be incompetent enough to actually risk running out of water!

Richard
 
Interesting that it did cut your CYA level in half in four days. So everyone is wondering if it would do that at lower starting levels. If so it could be a viable product. If you had started at a 120 CYA and it would knock it down to 60, that would be great.
 

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Did you follow the instructions exactly?

It is working for me. in 6 days it reduced CYA from 100 to 80 with at least 4 more days to go.

1 partial drain/refill to get it from 100 to 80 would have cost me $ 97 dollars vs $ 49 for the bio active so I did save money on that too.
 
Definately no loss from day 4 to 30. How many bags of BioActive did you use in that timeframe?

I think your graphs must have scared away the BioActive Rep. Haven't seen him around here in a while.

One bag was added on Day 0. One bag was added on Day 6. One bag was added on Day 26.

ALL conditions and parameters recommended by BA were followed.

At the beginning of the trial, I was not accustom to using the CYA turbidity test. The tests during the first 4 days were done at sun-set/lower light conditions which I believe resulted in inaccurate high readings. I suspect that my pool really started out at about 350 ppm, but I have no hard evidence to back up that conjecture.

After Day 4, I carefully followed JasonLion's CYA test procedures. From that point on, the readings were flat (between 300 and 400). What can be said is that from day 4 to day 31, two bags of BA-CAR were added and no statictically significant reduction in CYA readings was observed. I intent to take one last reading on day 36. If the measured CYA level is not significantly below 300, I intend to stop the trial.

Richard
 
Added my first bag this afternoon. Then I started researching on the web--yes I like to do it backwards. Discovered this site and saw so good posts about CYA and joined up. Then I found this thread and now i'm depressed. I should have just drained. I understand those in CA cannot, we had that level of drought in Texas in the recent past, but have finally gotten some rain.

It won't hurt to wait the 10 days to see what happens, but I'm sure a drain and refill is going to be in my near future.

BTW, this is one of the best threads I have seen on the web. Thank you so much for posting your results.
 
Day 33

Today was partially cloudy. I decided to run CYA tests a) with an moderately overcast sky, and b) in full bright sunlight.

With the moderately overcast, the CYA measured 600.
With full bright sunlight, the CYA measured 360.

My conclusion is that to achieve consistent accurate CYA results using the Taylor K-2006 tester, the test procedure of JasonLion must be followed in bright sunlight.

I have decided to end my BA-CAR test at this point. Later today, I will post my final graph and my conclusions.

Richard
 
My final report on my BA-CAR trial:

Background:
My pool started with very high CYA levels. I had been using trichlor pucks and dichlor powder for years.

I live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia (PRK). The state and my local water utility over the years have failed to plan for the routine predictable droughts we have every 10 years or so. This year they have declared a Stage 4 drought emergency. Increased water rates and penalties have been instituted. The water alone for a pool drain and refill would cost me about $300. Additionally, the PRK (at least in my location) has declared pool water a hazardous waste which cannot be drained onto my lawn, into a drain, or into the streets, but must be pumped into a hazmat tank truck and hauled away at great additional expense to me. Because of the projected drain-refill expenses, I decided to give the BA-CAR a try.

My personal background is as an industrial physicist. I have 44 years of experience in designing, conducting and reporting experiments. Until this trial, I had relied on retail pool stores to do my pool water testing.

Procedures:
At the beginning of the trial, I ceased using trichlor/dichlor and started using concentrated Clorox to maintain chlorine levels and started using Borox and muriatic acid to maintain PH levels.

I had not done a CYA test myself before this trial began, and was surprised to discover the tweakiness of the measurements and the great rigor required to achieve consistent accurate results. The JasonLion test procedures under bright direct sunlight were followed after Day 3 of the trial.

All procedures, recommendation, and water parameters from BA were adhered to during the trial. One bag of BACAR was added to the skimmer on each of Days 0, 6 and 26. general water conditions, FC, PH and CYA were monitored during the trial.

Results:
See graph below.

CYA test day 33.jpg

Discussions
The CYA readings before Day 4 should be ignored because the tests were done under lower light conditions. It was discovered that under such low light conditions, CYA reading were inaccurate and generally much higher that actual CYA levels.

The trial did not reveal any significant reduction in CYA levels in my pool.

I am uncertain how BA-CAR would perform in pools starting with much lower CYA levels. Some members on this site have reported reductions of 20 to 30 ppm reductions per bag with starting CYA levels of around 100. Such results may be valid. My starting CYA levels on Day 0 were probably about 350. Certainly on Day 4, my CYA levels were about 350. After about one month of using BA-CAR, there was no significant reduction in my pool CYA readings.

Conclusion:
The trial failed to reduce my pool CYA readings to a level below 300, and no significant reduction in CYA level could be verified by the use of BA-CYA.

I’ll try to answer any questions members may have regarding this trial.

Richard
 
regarding the "jason lion testing in full sun"...that was with your back to the sun, holding the black dot beaker at waste level and observing
it disappear as you poured the solution in ....correct?

I had previously (months ago) been doing cya tests with the full sun light exposed to the beaker...which is not the correct way.
 
regarding the "jason lion testing in full sun"...that was with your back to the sun, holding the black dot beaker at waste level and observing
it disappear as you poured the solution in ....correct?

I had previously (months ago) been doing cya tests with the full sun light exposed to the beaker...which is not the correct way.

Essentially, yes.

1) sample verified to be above 65 F
2) shaken for 30 seconds
3) rested for 60 seconds
4) shaken for 10 seconds
5) rested for a few seconds to let the bubbles dissipate
6) tester held at waist level, sun over left shoulder, column in in full bright sunlight
7) sample poured into column slowly
8) staring "hard" at the black dot while pouring until it completely disappears
9 take reading off the side of column

Best,
Richard

.
7)
 
6) tester held at waist level, sun over left shoulder, column in in full bright sunlight


I'm pretty sure the sun is supposed to be behind you so that the column is lit from the shade of your body and any surrounding ambient light.

otherwise the CYA will measure much lower than it actually is.

At least thats my understanding of it.
 
Note: the above procedure is about getting repeatable results at high dilutions that were not affected by cold water. That means the focus was on detecting relative changes, not on getting calibrated results. For calibrated results (which is what is normally important) the view tube should be in the shadow of your body. Also, the resting and second mixing is for dealing with cold water samples.
 
I'm pretty sure the sun is supposed to be behind you so that the column is lit from the shade of your body and any surrounding ambient light.

otherwise the CYA will measure much lower than it actually is.

At least thats my understanding of it.

None of the test equipment is “NIST traceable,” so the focus during the trial was on reproducibility, reliability, and looking for trends, rather than on absolute accuracy (which is unknowable with any great precision in any event since there exists no “gold standard” cross-check).

The shaking and resting routine was recommended for cold water samples. However, I was uncomfortable intentionally changing the test procedure on a sample by sample basis. In most experiments, that is a no-no. So I standardized on the shaking and resting procedure reported for all samples. I believe it gives consistent results for both cold and warm samples, as verified by my graph of CYA measured vs sample temperature posted earlier.

I probably ran close to 200 CYA measurements during this trial. My anecdotal observation was that there was only a minor reading difference on a clear day with the sun coming over my left shoulder between holding the column in direct sunlight and in my shadow. The readings increased wildly, however, if the test was done with an overcast sky, near sunset, or in deep shadow.

My emphasis (after Day 3) was on testing procedure consistency looking for CYA reading trends.

Richard
 

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