balanced but cloudy :-(
- Thread starter p0las
- Start date
This thread wandered a little off topic.....
To the original poster, FC of 3 is too low with a CYA of 55 (if those numbers can be trusted). Perform an OCLT to verify, but I'd guess it's algae. Shock it.
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To the original poster, FC of 3 is too low with a CYA of 55 (if those numbers can be trusted). Perform an OCLT to verify, but I'd guess it's algae. Shock it.
Sent from my Exhibit II using Tapatalk.
thanks guys.
I got my test kit today so I'm going to verify all the numbers and do overnight FC drop test.
I also figured out why I thought my PSI gauge was broken. Once I attach my barracuda to the system the pressure on the gauge usually drops to 0.
is it normal? is my barracuda putting too much stress on the system?
cheers.
Pawel
I got my test kit today so I'm going to verify all the numbers and do overnight FC drop test.
I also figured out why I thought my PSI gauge was broken. Once I attach my barracuda to the system the pressure on the gauge usually drops to 0.
is it normal? is my barracuda putting too much stress on the system?
cheers.
Pawel
- Jun 14, 2012
- 2,668
- Pool Size
- 13500
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Edge-40
What type of cleaner is that? I think it is a suction side cleaner right?
Sent via Tapatalk...
Sent via Tapatalk...
Yea it is a suction cleaner (side?). It plugs to skimmer box and picks stuff from the bottom and sides.UnderWaterVanya said:
hi,
so finally I have the test (TF100)
did the overnight FC test and it dropped by 2 so I'm shocking it today.
I have a question regarding the test. according to it I have less than 20 CYA (I can fill the probe full and still see the black dot a bit). Computerised test however in a pool centre shows sunscreen at 40. I have no reason to doubt the computerised test as it seems to be consistent (I have a history of results for a couple of months). I repeated CYA test 3 times. There is not much that I could do wrong there and I always get <20. This is quite a big difference for shocking and my current FC level (15) is not enough for CYA 40.
hee are my results and in brackets one I got from a computerised test:
FC 15
PH 7.8 (TF100 is not very precise) (7.7)
TA 150 (135)
CH 220 (171)
CYA 20 (40)
any idea why those measurements are so different?
so finally I have the test (TF100)
did the overnight FC test and it dropped by 2 so I'm shocking it today.
I have a question regarding the test. according to it I have less than 20 CYA (I can fill the probe full and still see the black dot a bit). Computerised test however in a pool centre shows sunscreen at 40. I have no reason to doubt the computerised test as it seems to be consistent (I have a history of results for a couple of months). I repeated CYA test 3 times. There is not much that I could do wrong there and I always get <20. This is quite a big difference for shocking and my current FC level (15) is not enough for CYA 40.
hee are my results and in brackets one I got from a computerised test:
FC 15
PH 7.8 (TF100 is not very precise) (7.7)
TA 150 (135)
CH 220 (171)
CYA 20 (40)
any idea why those measurements are so different?
Do yourself a favor and stop comparing test results or you will drive yourself crazy. Trust your own. A computerized test likely is reading the color off a strip ... which are no good. You have the best test kit. Trust it.
Read the extended test kit instructions that are a sticky in the Testing forum. The CYA is a little tricky and lighting and temperature can affect the results.
Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
Read the extended test kit instructions that are a sticky in the Testing forum. The CYA is a little tricky and lighting and temperature can affect the results.
Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
jblizzle said:Do yourself a favor and stop comparing test results or you will drive yourself crazy. Trust your own. A computerized test likely is reading the color off a strip ... which are no good. You have the best test kit. Trust it.
Read the extended test kit instructions that are a sticky in the Testing forum. The CYA is a little tricky and lighting and temperature can affect the results.
Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
computerised test takes 6 or 7 vials with water (each with different chemicals, coloured differently) so it is as accurate as me eyeballing it
I will read the extended manual. thank you for pointing it out.
Pawel
You would think so but it is not. As Jason says, trust your own testing. It is better than the computer results you are getting.
Over the 8-10 years of reports on this and other forums, that is a pretty definitive conclusion.
hi,
so I have been fighting the pool for a couple of days now and I cannot say I see any improvement. I did OFCLT and got FC 7 in the evening and 5 in the morning (hardly any CC) and as it dropped by 2 I started the shock process. I bumped FC to 17 (I wanted to do 15 but wasn't very precise with chlorine). Since then I'm checking FC in the morning (after about 2 hours of sunlight) and late evening. My pump is running for 8h during the day, between checks. My pool is surrounded by trees so I have leaves, beetles and other Crud constantly falling into. Could it be the reason for FC consumption? What happens to FC? isn't it converted to CC when it is used? Shouldn't I see some CC every morning if FC is dropping?
OFCTL every night shows:
17.5->14.5
14.5->13
12.5->11
11.5->10
with no CC. other measurements before shock were:
PH 7.8-7.7
TA 150
CH 220
CYA 20
should I see some improvement by now? Should I keep going with the shock? It is middle of summer here and having the pool unusable because of high FC is a bit painful and hard to explain to kids ;-)
any suggestions?
thank you
Pawel
so I have been fighting the pool for a couple of days now and I cannot say I see any improvement. I did OFCLT and got FC 7 in the evening and 5 in the morning (hardly any CC) and as it dropped by 2 I started the shock process. I bumped FC to 17 (I wanted to do 15 but wasn't very precise with chlorine). Since then I'm checking FC in the morning (after about 2 hours of sunlight) and late evening. My pump is running for 8h during the day, between checks. My pool is surrounded by trees so I have leaves, beetles and other Crud constantly falling into. Could it be the reason for FC consumption? What happens to FC? isn't it converted to CC when it is used? Shouldn't I see some CC every morning if FC is dropping?
OFCTL every night shows:
17.5->14.5
14.5->13
12.5->11
11.5->10
with no CC. other measurements before shock were:
PH 7.8-7.7
TA 150
CH 220
CYA 20
should I see some improvement by now? Should I keep going with the shock? It is middle of summer here and having the pool unusable because of high FC is a bit painful and hard to explain to kids ;-)
any suggestions?
thank you
Pawel
y_not
0
You don't need to perform an OCLT every night while shocking. It just wastes reagent. You only do it once your water is completely clear, to see where you're at, if you're done or not.
Don't even bother testing for CCs until your water is clear. Again, it just wastes reagent.
Skip pH too, it doesn't read correctly at shock levels. SO again, a waste.
If you are only adding CL 2x/day, in the morning and at night. It will take much, much, much longer for you to complete the shock process. If ever!
You need to keep on it, all throughout the day, hammer that puppy!! You gotta stay ahead of the algae, as what you're doing right now is letting the algae grow and multiply in between your lengthy stretches of CL addition to the pool.
Thus, daily, loosing all the progress you made by the prior CL addition.
If you have to be gone during the day, cover it if you can. But do uncover it part of the day in the sunshine so the UV rays can oxidize things.
Your pump and filter absolutely MUST RUN 24hrs/day until you are done shocking.
An FC of 15 to 17 PPM is much too high for a CYA of 20ppm. It could potentially be damaging to your pool and equipment.
The CYA chart shows 10ppm FC shock level for your CYA level. Maximum of 13ppm for mustard/black algae shock levels. But that should only be held for 24hrs and only AFTER you have completed and passed all the criteria of a normal shock process.
Are you using http://www.poolcalculator.com to determine how much CL you need to add? Be sure and enter your pool size in gallons, as well as setting at the bottom, your pool levels (TroubleFreePool.com), chlorine source & surface type.
You have made no mention of either type of such extreme algae. So stick with 10ppm FC for your shock level. More FC doesn't make it go any quicker, in fact you just loose more and costs you more money. However if you loose a lot between hourly test intervals, such that you consistently drop below 10pppm FC. Then you can kick it up a bit during the day, so you have more buffer. But that's about the only reason to do so.
At normal shock levels that I have listed above, you may swim in the pool. It's safe and won't harm you, or your skin. However, 2 points I must make.
1. Only swim if you can see the bottom of the deep end. This is for safety reasons, someone could be in trouble and no one would see it.
2. If you do swim, keep in mind that people simply being in the pool will cause a CL demand. Thus slowing your shock progress. It's about 0.7ppm FC demand per person hour.
As for junk dumping in the pool from nearby trees, plants, etc..
Yes, this causes a CL demand. But larger objects like leaves, pine needles and such, are slow to oxidize. So you do need to keep the pool cleaned out. This is part of the shock process, along with daily brushing.
Don't backwash your filter too much either. Only backwash at a 25% pressure rise from your starting pressure. Ignore what anyone has told you otherwise, as every single filter and pool is different. There's no "set" pressure amount as a predefined number.
IE. If your starting pressure is 15psi, you don't wait till it hits 25PSI to clean it. No way!
Instead, if your starting pressure is 15psi, you clean it at 18.75psi.
Make sure your waste water when backwashing is actually showing signs of being dirty. IE. the filter is catching dirt and dead algae like it should.
All of these things are outlined in Pool School, as linked by the large white button in the upper right corner of any TFP page.
Do study it as much as you can.
But we're gladly here to help with any questions you may have.
Don't even bother testing for CCs until your water is clear. Again, it just wastes reagent.
Skip pH too, it doesn't read correctly at shock levels. SO again, a waste.
If you are only adding CL 2x/day, in the morning and at night. It will take much, much, much longer for you to complete the shock process. If ever!
You need to keep on it, all throughout the day, hammer that puppy!! You gotta stay ahead of the algae, as what you're doing right now is letting the algae grow and multiply in between your lengthy stretches of CL addition to the pool.
Thus, daily, loosing all the progress you made by the prior CL addition.
If you have to be gone during the day, cover it if you can. But do uncover it part of the day in the sunshine so the UV rays can oxidize things.
Your pump and filter absolutely MUST RUN 24hrs/day until you are done shocking.
An FC of 15 to 17 PPM is much too high for a CYA of 20ppm. It could potentially be damaging to your pool and equipment.
The CYA chart shows 10ppm FC shock level for your CYA level. Maximum of 13ppm for mustard/black algae shock levels. But that should only be held for 24hrs and only AFTER you have completed and passed all the criteria of a normal shock process.
Are you using http://www.poolcalculator.com to determine how much CL you need to add? Be sure and enter your pool size in gallons, as well as setting at the bottom, your pool levels (TroubleFreePool.com), chlorine source & surface type.
You have made no mention of either type of such extreme algae. So stick with 10ppm FC for your shock level. More FC doesn't make it go any quicker, in fact you just loose more and costs you more money. However if you loose a lot between hourly test intervals, such that you consistently drop below 10pppm FC. Then you can kick it up a bit during the day, so you have more buffer. But that's about the only reason to do so.
At normal shock levels that I have listed above, you may swim in the pool. It's safe and won't harm you, or your skin. However, 2 points I must make.
1. Only swim if you can see the bottom of the deep end. This is for safety reasons, someone could be in trouble and no one would see it.
2. If you do swim, keep in mind that people simply being in the pool will cause a CL demand. Thus slowing your shock progress. It's about 0.7ppm FC demand per person hour.
As for junk dumping in the pool from nearby trees, plants, etc..
Yes, this causes a CL demand. But larger objects like leaves, pine needles and such, are slow to oxidize. So you do need to keep the pool cleaned out. This is part of the shock process, along with daily brushing.
Don't backwash your filter too much either. Only backwash at a 25% pressure rise from your starting pressure. Ignore what anyone has told you otherwise, as every single filter and pool is different. There's no "set" pressure amount as a predefined number.
IE. If your starting pressure is 15psi, you don't wait till it hits 25PSI to clean it. No way!
Instead, if your starting pressure is 15psi, you clean it at 18.75psi.
Make sure your waste water when backwashing is actually showing signs of being dirty. IE. the filter is catching dirt and dead algae like it should.
All of these things are outlined in Pool School, as linked by the large white button in the upper right corner of any TFP page.
Do study it as much as you can.
But we're gladly here to help with any questions you may have.
thanks y_not.
more explanation on my end:
1. I don't add CL at all (only chlorinator adds a bit during the day) and the level of chlorine seems to stay consistent.
2. I didn't have to backwash the filter so far (since I started the shock) as the pressure didn't really change on the gauge.
3. I test FC to know if I have enough for shock level.
4. I did use the calculator to determine neede chlorine for the shock
5. I have read pool school and was following the shock guide from there.
OCLT test is one of the criteria I need to pass to stop the shock process, that's why I was doing it every night as I want to stop as soon as possible. If I run the filter 24h than there is no way to do OCLT anyway.
if I don't check chlorine levels during the shock process at least once a day how would I know if I need to add any? I'm a bit confused. I though that the shock process was about keeping shock level of FC in the pool. To keep FC I need to test for it to know if I need to add any chlorine or not or if the chlorinator is producing enough to keep the level of FC stable.
how would I know how much chlorine to add multiple times a day? without testing?
can you explain a bit more about it?
cheers
Pawel
more explanation on my end:
1. I don't add CL at all (only chlorinator adds a bit during the day) and the level of chlorine seems to stay consistent.
2. I didn't have to backwash the filter so far (since I started the shock) as the pressure didn't really change on the gauge.
3. I test FC to know if I have enough for shock level.
4. I did use the calculator to determine neede chlorine for the shock
5. I have read pool school and was following the shock guide from there.
OCLT test is one of the criteria I need to pass to stop the shock process, that's why I was doing it every night as I want to stop as soon as possible. If I run the filter 24h than there is no way to do OCLT anyway.
if I don't check chlorine levels during the shock process at least once a day how would I know if I need to add any? I'm a bit confused. I though that the shock process was about keeping shock level of FC in the pool. To keep FC I need to test for it to know if I need to add any chlorine or not or if the chlorinator is producing enough to keep the level of FC stable.
how would I know how much chlorine to add multiple times a day? without testing?
can you explain a bit more about it?
cheers
Pawel
- Jun 14, 2012
- 2,668
- Pool Size
- 13500
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Edge-40
You have a salt water chlorine generator correct?
Can you not disable it? You should be able to rub with the pump on and that off.
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Can you not disable it? You should be able to rub with the pump on and that off.
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Also, why are you only running the pump 8 hrs.? Normally, you run the pump/filter 24/7 when you're trying to clear the water.
- Jun 14, 2012
- 2,668
- Pool Size
- 13500
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool Edge-40
Earlier there was a reference to not being able to do OCLT due to chlorinator being on when the pump runs.Swampwoman said:
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I didn't know I was supposed to run the pump 24. Running it now.
How often I should test for FC? And how? Can I dilute the test water and use a simple/cheap test for it?
I understand I do OCLT test only after the water is clear right?
Thanks
Pawel
How often I should test for FC? And how? Can I dilute the test water and use a simple/cheap test for it?
I understand I do OCLT test only after the water is clear right?
Thanks
Pawel
Let clear some things up:
Is the water still cloudy?
You are now running the pump 24/7, correct?
Are you able to have the SWG off? It must be off to perform the OCLT, in fact I would leave it off and use liquid chlorine until you pass the 3 tests to stop the shock process. Then lower the pump run time and turn the SWG back on.
Is the water still cloudy?
You are now running the pump 24/7, correct?
Are you able to have the SWG off? It must be off to perform the OCLT, in fact I would leave it off and use liquid chlorine until you pass the 3 tests to stop the shock process. Then lower the pump run time and turn the SWG back on.
The water is still cloudy. I can disable SWG and I started to run the pump 24/7 yesterday.
With SWG on it is easier to maintain the shock level so I will keep it on until I need to do OCLT test (unless you recommend to do otherwise) I work during the day and I cannot monitor FC.
Still don't know how to check FC without using FAS DPD (which is used for OCLT that I'm not supposed to do every night)
I'm sorry for lame questions but it is my first pool and I have no experience whatsoever.
Thanks for your help!
Pawel
With SWG on it is easier to maintain the shock level so I will keep it on until I need to do OCLT test (unless you recommend to do otherwise) I work during the day and I cannot monitor FC.
Still don't know how to check FC without using FAS DPD (which is used for OCLT that I'm not supposed to do every night)
I'm sorry for lame questions but it is my first pool and I have no experience whatsoever.
Thanks for your help!
Pawel
You have to use the FAS-DPD test.
y_not was just saying that you do not have to test after dark and before the sun comes up every night ... especially if the water is not clear.
You can use the SWG to maintain the FC if you want, but then you are not really getting a feel for the progress you are making. If you were testing and then adding liquid chlorine to get back up to the shock level, then you should be seeing a reduction in the amount you have to add over a given time period.
Of course now that you have tripled your pump run time, amount of FC the SWG is going to be adding is also going to triple ... so you may overshoot the shock level unless you turn the SWG down. And then as you are making progress you should have to continually lower the SWG output as the demand goes down ... thus it is simpler to just add the FC yourself.
y_not was just saying that you do not have to test after dark and before the sun comes up every night ... especially if the water is not clear.
You can use the SWG to maintain the FC if you want, but then you are not really getting a feel for the progress you are making. If you were testing and then adding liquid chlorine to get back up to the shock level, then you should be seeing a reduction in the amount you have to add over a given time period.
Of course now that you have tripled your pump run time, amount of FC the SWG is going to be adding is also going to triple ... so you may overshoot the shock level unless you turn the SWG down. And then as you are making progress you should have to continually lower the SWG output as the demand goes down ... thus it is simpler to just add the FC yourself.
y_not
0
jblizzle said:
Thanks jblizzle for clarifying that. I wasn't around since my post until just now to be able to provide clarification on that. Much appreciated.
As for the OCLT/FAS-DPD question for regular testing. I believe you are confusing the OCLT test as being a different set of tests from regular FC testing. This isn't the case, both daily FC testing as well as doing an OCLT use the same FAS-DPD, powder based, non-colorimetric drop count test.
It's just that with daily testing, you are measuring your FC level each day, or even at different times, multiple times per day. As is the case while performing the shock process. Doing the test as many times as needed.
I recommend skipping the 3rd re-agent, the small Taylor bottle /w the yellow lid R-0003. That's for CCs, and since that's a really small bottle. Do that sparingly, IE. toward the end of the homestretch.
When you do an OCLT, it's actually the exact same test as mentioned above. Only instead of checking it after each CL addition so you know how much it has fallen and thus how much to add next, in order to maintain shock level. You are simply testing once after dark and your last CL addition, then just leaving it in a holding pattern with the pump still on, and again checking FC before sun up.
The whole purpose of this is to see how much of a CL demand that any organics in your water are exhibiting, telling you if you have all of the organics killed off in your pool. We do it after dark and before sun up, in order to eliminate CL consumption by the sun's UV rays. Thereby just leaving the algae or other organics to consume CL.
Yes, shut your SWG off, use bleach and don't use any pucks. It's too difficult as previously mentioned to see how much CL you are really loosing.
Hopefully that makes more sense.
How long has it been since you have opened up your sand filter and cleaned it out with a hose?
If that is unknown, you need to do that. As it filters through the season, it builds up gunk in there and the sand can clump together. Thereby decreasing its filtration ability, not to mention its flow rate and makes your pump work harder. See my sig for a link on how to perform this procedure. Which should be done each season, end or start of the season is up to you. So long as it's once per season.
What is your starting "clean" pressure reading and what is it now?
Does your gauge go to zero when you shut the pump off?