Autopilot Digital 36 In Use 5.5 Years, Replace With ?

[Guest]

Possibly our pool builders use superior materials and equipment which can tolerate those salt levels. But it always puzzled me, why US has their salt levels so low. I believe the recommendations are not due to fundamental differences in cells, rather a general opinion created in US that salt is bad.

I have to agree one hundred per cent on this I live on the coast of Florida (My house is less than a block from the Atlantic!) so the building materials used are designed to resist corrosion. I know that in other parts of the country this is not done to keep costs down If builders would not use substandard materials then corrosion problems would be minimized.
There does seem to be a "salt is bad' movement afoot because in some isolated areas of the country some soft limesotne was used in pool construction and it suffered damage from the salt. Once again it boils down to correct building materials. IMHO, Limestone is NOT a suitable material for pool construction since it is extremely reactive. the trend in this country now seems to be the use of natural rock in pool construction. If the materials are not selected carefully there can and will be problems. I guess this is one of the reasons that I opted for a fiberglass pool!

 

[Venomous]

If you are running at power level 2 and 20% output then you would do better running at power level 1 and readjusting the output to maintain the proper FC.

I am going to give Autopilot one more try and get a new cell. I do believe it was probabl;y something that had to do with the chem levels. As you read above my only level that was a little low was CYA according to the Autopilot manual. I think later revisions of the manual may have tightened up on those acceptable levels.

Waterbear I will follow your instructions exactly with the new cell when I get it.. Thanks for everyones help.

I just went and read the newest manual on the Autopilot site. They still have the same operating range for chemicals as my manual. So the only low number according to the Autopilot recommended levels was CYA. Can a reading of 45-50 instead of a low of 60 cause the unit to fail that quickly? I am just wondering. I am still going to try one more Autopilot cell.

 

[Strannik]

I have to agree one hundred per cent on this I live on the coast of Florida (My house is less than a block from the Atlantic!) so the building materials used are designed to resist corrosion. I know that in other parts of the country this is not done to keep costs down

Well Australian population is mainly located along the coast, because of the desert in the middle. So that might be the reason for use of better materials. Although i'm not a pool builder, i've never heard anyone use materials like limestone here. Mostly it's concrete pool with ceramic tiles, or vynil/fiberglass pools

 

[Guest]

They are using the natural rock for coping and water fearures.

 

[JasonLion]

My understanding is that in the US there has been a marketing push to say that salt levels below 3,000 cannot be tasted and that this has become a marketing feature that everyone must conform with or lose sales. I find this a little strange since most people can taste the salt at 3,000.

 

[Guest]

Interstngly enough my Goldline unti will shut off if the salt is above about 4500 ppm or below abut 2700 ppm. I keep mine about 3400 ppm.

 

[Poolsean]

Diamond Shamrock was the first manufacturer of salt systems in the US, back in the late 70's. Way back then, they were running lower salt levels than Aussie units, approx 3000 ppm. It's not something new in the SWG industry. Just new to Aussie units. We've been running with these salt levels without any problems with the power supplies or chlorine production.
Increased salt levels do not necessarily mean more chlorine production or efficiency. It means that the power supply design needs the additional conductivity for it to work properly.

Low salt protection is a requirement by UL1081. Operating at low salt levels will cause premature damage, but what's more important is that the efficiency of the system is reduced and not as much chlorine is produced. UL is not concerned that the cell will fail prematurely, they are concerned that there will not be enough chlorine generated to keep the pool water safe.
Increasing the low salt protection feature is not a solution. We have a low salt warning at 2400 ppm. And a low salt cut off at 1900 ppm.
Hopefully, the pool owner pays proper attention to their system to ensure that their salt level is at the recommended 3000 ppm range.

Strannick, it seems like you're trying to state that your Australian systems are better than US systems. I don't think this is the format or room for this. This can be taken to the Agree to Disagree room.
Then we can take the gloves off.

Venomous had a problem. Asked the question and you recommended your system.

I guess I took offense when you assumed our tri-sensor was an example of a design fault. Again, as stated, we give a warning light, a display message that tells the pool owner how much salt to add to maintain 3000 ppm (does yours do that?), and hopefully, the warning light would be recognized by the pool owner and adjusted so that these problems do not occur. Raising the low salt limit higher is not a solution.

Question for you, what happens to your power supply if the salt level is allows to go below 3000 ppm? How do you determine salt level?

Well, sorry for this. I said this should go to another room, and took it to that level. I'll take off my defensive shield now.

Venemous, thanks for giving AutoPilot another chance. I will contact you directly within the next few days.

 

[Strannik]

Low salt protection is a requirement by UL1081. Operating at low salt levels will cause premature damage, but what's more important is that the efficiency of the system is reduced and not as much chlorine is produced. UL is not concerned that the cell will fail prematurely, they are concerned that there will not be enough chlorine generated to keep the pool water safe.
Increasing the low salt protection feature is not a solution. We have a low salt warning at 2400 ppm. And a low salt cut off at 1900 ppm.
Hopefully, the pool owner pays proper attention to their system to ensure that their salt level is at the recommended 3000 ppm range.

I guess I took offense when you assumed our tri-sensor was an example of a design fault. Again, as stated, we give a warning light, a display message that tells the pool owner how much salt to add to maintain 3000 ppm (does yours do that?), and hopefully, the warning light would be recognized by the pool owner and adjusted so that these problems do not occur. Raising the low salt limit higher is not a solution.

TRI-SENSOR ASSEMBLY
ensures that adequate Flow, Salt Level, and Water
Temperatures are satisfactory to
prevent abusive conditions for the
cell to operate.

I mainly have a problem with highlighted part. If you claim that your sensor is preventing something, it must do it. If it doesn't do it then there a design problem (be it technical, or at a conceptual level) or a misleading information provided.

The approach we take when we design and market our systems is: don't advertise something we don't do and don't publish specs which are "absolute maximums in ideal conditions". And we certainly don't "hope that owner will notice the light and do the right thing". We prefer to base design of our systems on knowledge, rather than hope. If there is some minimum level for whatever reason, it is enforced at a level where it is actually able to prevent malfunction.

In general, australian and european markets are a bit different to US. Here people prefer to have reliable systems with as little bells and whistles as possible. We actually have people asking for units with old mechanical timers (or even with no timers at all) because they fell it will be more reliable and easier to use than LCD timers.

That's probably why not many US manufactured chlorinators found their way to Australia and vice versa.

As these are our main markets, we build top quality systems with accent made on a reliability and performance rather than bells and whistles. Consequently we test every feature thoroughly, before implementing it in our systems. We like to compare them with russian battleships. Everything is made 3 times stronger than necessary.

Saying that,t i don't discount the fact that in a short future AutoChlor will make a system loaded with all the bells and whistles specifically directed at US market.

Question for you, what happens to your power supply if the salt level is allows to go below 3000 ppm? How do you determine salt level?

Nothing. It will just turn off and give an error light. Why would anything else happen?


If you feel like continuing this discussion the we probably should ask the mods to branch part of this topic into another area.

 

[Poolsean]

Strannik,
It's not worth the needless banter on this. It doesn't get anywhere and it certainly doesn't help the people on here. Just be a little more humble. US manufacturers like to produce Reliable Quality products too, with and without all the bells and whistles.

"As these are our main markets, we build top quality systems with accent made on a reliability and performance rather than bells and whistles. Consequently we test every feature thoroughly, before implementing it in our systems."

Please don't imply that you can only have one and not the other. We haven't been manufacturing salt systems for over 30 years in the US to send out Crud to the consumers. You do that, and your company will close up in no time at all.
It goes without saying that if we were unreliable and poor performers, we wouldn't be able to pass UL1081 AND NSF50 standards, and last as long as we have.

G'day mate.

 

[Guest]

Where is Mark from WaterMaid when we need him!

Ok Guys, you both maid your points. I am going to lock this thread. If you wish to continue it please do it in the "agree to disagree" section. thanks!