Automation Controls
- Thread starter piku
- Start date
Ok I need everyone's help. Whether you are interested in the system or not I'd like people to describe their automation needs. I am trying to come up with the best "default" configuration. You see the water resistant connectors that are of any reasonable quality are very expensive, thus reducing the amount of default connectors, harnesses, etc will keep costs down for the base product but will allow some level of customizability for power users.
Basically the system can handle 5 analog sensors and 4 relays. The 4 relays can control 4 contactors for pumps or lights OR 4 jandy valves. Each connector added adds nearly $20 in parts costs ALONE. There are a number of ways to go about it though. If I know what people are planning and doing it will help me figure out the most cost effective way to offer it. The way I am THINKING about doing it is using 2 relays for jandy valves and 2 relays for motor/light control. Some users may have a booster pump or a chlorine pump that they also want to control so they may prefer 3 relays to 1 jandy valve or even 4 relays and no jandy valves.
A user with solar and a hot tub however will have quite a few motorized valves but may desire to leave the pump run on timer control. So the default offer is complicated at best.
One way to save money would be to pair sensors. To assume that a user who wants to sense temperature will MOST LIKELY want to sense temperature locally and remotely and to have a secondary connector on that harness to hook that up (for solar control). Similarly if you want to calculate flow you need to measure both suction vacuum AND post pump pressure so you would probably always want to have 2 pressure sensors.
My personal scenario is that I would like to have relay control of the pump and light. I have a pool robot and I control that manually. I have no chlorinator but if I did I assume that would run somewhat automatically (determines flow, orp, and chlorinates accordingly). In terms of sensors and valves, I would like solar control to run through this device which means I need to control one motorized valve as well as read one local temperature and one temperature 200 feet away at the panels. I would also like pump protection and flow calculation which means a pair of pressure sensors.
Other people will undoubtably have very different needs... What are they? What sensors would you want and why? What "operation modes" do you have. Hot tub, winter, etc.
Thanks for ANY help!
Basically the system can handle 5 analog sensors and 4 relays. The 4 relays can control 4 contactors for pumps or lights OR 4 jandy valves. Each connector added adds nearly $20 in parts costs ALONE. There are a number of ways to go about it though. If I know what people are planning and doing it will help me figure out the most cost effective way to offer it. The way I am THINKING about doing it is using 2 relays for jandy valves and 2 relays for motor/light control. Some users may have a booster pump or a chlorine pump that they also want to control so they may prefer 3 relays to 1 jandy valve or even 4 relays and no jandy valves.
A user with solar and a hot tub however will have quite a few motorized valves but may desire to leave the pump run on timer control. So the default offer is complicated at best.
One way to save money would be to pair sensors. To assume that a user who wants to sense temperature will MOST LIKELY want to sense temperature locally and remotely and to have a secondary connector on that harness to hook that up (for solar control). Similarly if you want to calculate flow you need to measure both suction vacuum AND post pump pressure so you would probably always want to have 2 pressure sensors.
My personal scenario is that I would like to have relay control of the pump and light. I have a pool robot and I control that manually. I have no chlorinator but if I did I assume that would run somewhat automatically (determines flow, orp, and chlorinates accordingly). In terms of sensors and valves, I would like solar control to run through this device which means I need to control one motorized valve as well as read one local temperature and one temperature 200 feet away at the panels. I would also like pump protection and flow calculation which means a pair of pressure sensors.
Other people will undoubtably have very different needs... What are they? What sensors would you want and why? What "operation modes" do you have. Hot tub, winter, etc.
Thanks for ANY help!
A system for me needs to control both the spa and the pool. My pool and spa are operated via 1 pump for normal operation when filtering. I have an additional spa booster pump. My filter is on a daily timer. I currently manually isolate the spa when needed. If I chose to automate this process, I need two outputs (2 relays) for the jandy valves and one ouput (1 relay or 1 set of contacts) for the heater. Other than that, my base system needs would be 4 relays (2 pump relays, 1 light relay (controls two lights in parallel), and 1 spa blower relay (controls two blowers in parallel)). My current system also uses an SWG, but I would run that in parallel off one of the pump relays. I also have a temperature sensor (1 input) and a hardwired remote at the spa which controls the 2 pumps and 2 blowers (4 inputs).
Pumps - around 8 amps each @ 240v
Blowers - 4 amps each @ 240v
Lights - 2 to 4 amps each @ 120v
SWG - 2 to 4 amps @ 240
Heater - 1 set of contacts off a pump relay or 1 individual relay
Temp Sensor - 1 input
Spa Remote - 4 inputs
To summarize - To duplicate my current system I need 4 relays and 1 input for the temp sensor. If I decided to automate further than my current system, I need an additional 3 relays or 2 relays and 1 set of contacts off one of the pump relays.
What do you have in mind for relay sizing? 20 amps/relay? If your relay sizing is too small, my assumption that I could piggy back and pigtail off of a pump relay to power my SWG may be inaccurate. In that case I would need to add an additional relay.
Doug
Pumps - around 8 amps each @ 240v
Blowers - 4 amps each @ 240v
Lights - 2 to 4 amps each @ 120v
SWG - 2 to 4 amps @ 240
Heater - 1 set of contacts off a pump relay or 1 individual relay
Temp Sensor - 1 input
Spa Remote - 4 inputs
To summarize - To duplicate my current system I need 4 relays and 1 input for the temp sensor. If I decided to automate further than my current system, I need an additional 3 relays or 2 relays and 1 set of contacts off one of the pump relays.
What do you have in mind for relay sizing? 20 amps/relay? If your relay sizing is too small, my assumption that I could piggy back and pigtail off of a pump relay to power my SWG may be inaccurate. In that case I would need to add an additional relay.
Doug
OK, my house is completely automated already, and controlled by a Mac running xTension by Sand Hill Engineering (http://shed.com), and I have most of the capability you are talking about already, what I need is a valve actuator that will move a 1-1/4 PVC valve, and can be interfaced with an X-10 system. It would be nice if what I am looking for didn't cost more than the pool and the solar heater - LOL.
Doug,
The relays I am using are quite small... 5A current rating at 250V. The intention was to use them to piggyback larger contactors. They are sized for that purpose as well as handling the current of a valve actuator.
Also, I'm not sure I understood your setup. When you say you need 4 relays, how many of those control valve actuators and how many of those are on/off for pumps/blowers/lights.
Basically I never intended for anything above 24 volts AC to go into my board.
Thanks,
Mark
The relays I am using are quite small... 5A current rating at 250V. The intention was to use them to piggyback larger contactors. They are sized for that purpose as well as handling the current of a valve actuator.
Also, I'm not sure I understood your setup. When you say you need 4 relays, how many of those control valve actuators and how many of those are on/off for pumps/blowers/lights.
Basically I never intended for anything above 24 volts AC to go into my board.
Thanks,
Mark
piku said:
I currently have 4 relays that control motors, lights, blowers, etc.
I have no relays for valves. I currently operate all my valves by hand. If I wanted to automate I need two more relays for the valves.
Doug