ArtP's Remodel Thread

[ArtP]

I'm planning to start some renovations on my pool, and wanted to get input from the community (especially on price ranges) if anyone has had similar work done before. It would also be nice to know what to expect or if there's anything I should watch out for. I had the pool builder come out last week and measure my pool and look at my equipment and the condition of my pool. Right now, I'm waiting to get quotes from them for the work.

I'm planning to do, at a minimum, the following items:

• Switch to Saltwater and get a Saltwater Chlorine Generator
  • This might involve switching from my ancient (over 20 years old) timer/breaker panel to a new Screenlogic panel
    • An interesting side note: I was talking to a co-worker who is in the middle of a pool remodel right now, and he said he's switching away from saltwater back to normal chlorine. I thought this was surprising, as just about everyone seems to be of the opinion that saltwater and a SWCG are much better. I asked him why, and he said that saltwater is hard on pool equipment and components. I told him that no matter how he's adding chlorine otherwise, he's going to be increasing his salt levels anyway.
• Replace the old light with a new LED light.
• (Most likely) chipping out the pebble finish and getting it re-pebbled, and in a new color. My pool has a perimeter of 80 feet.
  • I have a number of mosaic tile decorations in the pool which will be destroyed during the chipping out. Is it worth it to buy new ones? My pool builder said they're really expensive. Aren't they just ordinary glazed tile? The prices on those don't make sense to me.

I'm considering, based on the quote I get, adding man-made rocks, steps, and a water slide/waterfall. I already have a sheet-type waterfall feature so I think tying into that plumbing would be relatively easy. I don't know anything about slides yet, so I'm hoping other people who have them will be able to provide input such as: what material types are available, how long do they last in the sun, are they worth it, etc.

Another idea I've been thinking about, but I didn't ask for a quote on, is adding a spillover spa to my pool. My fenced pool area currently has a ton of unused space that I think I could fit it in. However, I don't even have an idea of the price range this would fall into. I know at the very least, I'd need to add a heater as well. I don't know if other new equipment would be needed.

 

[Jimrahbe]

he said that saltwater is hard on pool equipment and components

Art,

Your friend is full of Bull Feathers!!! Either you care for your pool or you don't.. If you don't, things fall apart no matter if you have a saltwater pool or not. Your friend believes in excuses and myths. Many people were sold saltwater pools as a "You just turn it on and it does all the work for you" device. Just not true.. If you don't test and maintain your chemicals on a regular bases, things will quickly go south. It simply makes chlorine, it is not a magic pill.

Spa wise, I always suggest that you "try one, before you buy one".. About 50% of integrated spas are almost never used. When the pool is being built they cost $15 to $30K, I have no idea what it would cost to add one to an existing pool. But either way, please make sure that you have used an in-ground gunite spa before you waste your money on one.. If you have used a gunite spa before, and loved it, then go for it.

I see you have an IntelliFlo VS pump. This is great, as often you have to run the pump longer with a SWCG to generate the amount of chlorine your pool needs. With an IntelliFlo running at a low RPM, you will never know the difference.

It you are going to get an automation system then you need to get the EasyTouch or new IntelliCenter with a built-in SWCG power center. They come as a package... Automation and the cell. (Plus, if you get a spa, they come with the valves required to switch between the pool and spa mode.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ArtP]

Jim,

Thanks for the info!

I at least know what I'm getting into with switching to saltwater - I've done the research and know that the cells don't last forever, water still needs to be tested, etc. I've been maintaining my own water chemistry for a few years. I thought it was strange that my coworker was so unhappy with his, when most people are thrilled with them. He also pays a pool company to maintain his pool so I guess he hasn't experienced the joy of buying and carrying chlorine around, which most of us are familiar with.

As for the spa idea, I used to have access to one by the pool when I lived in an apartment several years ago, and I did love using it (especially late at night when nobody else was around). I'm sure I'd use one if I had it now. However, I'm guessing the cost to add it would be bordering on astronomical and more than I'm willing to spend on it. Still, it can't hurt to ask for a number, right? I've seen pictures of some builds where there's a small round spa surrounded by the rock work with an integrated slide into the pool, and it got me dreaming......

The PB told me that the cost of replacing the panel with the automation stuff would be about the same as installing the salt cell anyway, so it seems that is the way to go.

One other item I meant to put in the original post: I asked the PB if they use PebbleTec and he said no, they use some other brand of pebble finish, but that they're essentially identical, and that PebbleTec carried an upcharge for the brand name. Is that true? Does that mean I'm more limited on my color and finish options?

 

[Jimrahbe]

He also pays a pool company to maintain his pool

Art,

Apparently, that is not working out too well for him.

I am not a plaster expert, but in general it always costs more for the brand name and I doubt there is a significant difference.

I have not seen any reports here where pebble from one company is always failing, while another brand always works. In my mind it is the plaster crew that makes the difference rather than the brand name.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ArtP]

I've started looking at mosaic tiles online, since I have a handful in my pool right now and I think I'll miss them after they're chipped out. My kids like them too. Who else has mosaic tiles? How many is too many?

 

[ArtP]

I'm curious if anyone has the Pentair Intellibrite 5G LED light. Is it worth it? I asked the PB about replacing my light with that, and apparently it's about $1,080 (seems like an awful lot for a light). For that price, I'll probably just keep my old incandescent fixture, even though I am very partial to LED lighting.

Today my pool builder verified that they use NPT, so I think we are going to go with the Sand color mini pebbles. Pool Finishes: Mini Pebbles | NPTpool.com

I'm still looking at and considering purchasing a number of mosaics to go with an "ocean" theme and I think Sand will work well for that, since it looks like beach sand. Out of all the pictures I've seen of pools here on TFP, I feel like I've seen very few mosaics! If anyone has pictures to share, that would be awesome.

The last thing I'm waiting on is the cost estimate for the waterslide, and then I think I'll go ahead and get work started as soon as I can find the cash to pay the PB.

 

[ArtP]

I'm hopefully going to get started next week on chipping out my pool... will try to update the thread with progress at major steps.

I have been shopping poolmosaics.com and I feel like I may be getting carried away with how many I want to put in my pool (I often have this problem). Is there a reason they don't seem very popular? Is it just that people don't want the extra expense? Or will the installation add a lot to my remodel costs? And lastly, how many is too many?? I feel like they'll make my pool more unique (trying to go with a "theme") but I guess I don't want to go overboard.

I want to get the order put in soon so I can have them ready before it's time to plaster the pool again.

 

[ArtP]

Well, the crew is here (at 7:45 AM) and chipping out the pool! Sorry, neighbors!

I think they need a new term for it in the industry - chipping out sounds too gentle - it sounds like a parking lot being torn out back there!

 

[ArtP]

Chip-out is done. Plumbing should be happening early next week: New cartridge filter to replace my sand filter, plumbing in the SWCG, and possibly replacing some of the old valves.

 

[ArtP]

The plumber has come and gone today. New filter, plumbing, and valves have been installed. Just a "dummy" salt cell so far - they won't install the real one until the pool is started up and the plaster/pebble is cured.

My waterfall pump (the black one) has two returns on a 3-way valve, but I only have the one waterfall. What could the second return be used for?

Also, they pulled out the old concrete slab that was under my sand filter and dropped in a plastic one. How is a plastic slab preferable to concrete? The old one seems in really good shape, considering it had 500 lbs. of sand plus water sitting on it for 20+ years.

Today I also had a short discussion about startup with one of the people from the PB company. He said I could have a professional do the startup for the Easytouch control panel, or I could do it myself. How hard is it to DIY? I have the manual.

 

[jonpcar]

My waterfall pump (the black one) has two returns on a 3-way valve, but I only have the one waterfall. What could the second return be used for?

Also, they pulled out the old concrete slab that was under my sand filter and dropped in a plastic one. How is a plastic slab preferable to concrete? The old one seems in really good shape, considering it had 500 lbs. of sand plus water sitting on it for 20+ years.

Hey Art, some of your pictures don’t show up for me, in particular, the first two of the “chipout” pictures. Do you show a picture of your waterfall in those…is it an overflow type or a “pressure required strip” type? In either case, it’s a mystery to me why there would be two return paths for it (unless it is really wide??). Have you ever played with that valve? Could it be for a return side pool cleaner? That would require some kind of hookup in the pool somewhere.

Replacing your concrete pad with a plastic one doesn’t seem like a great trade off…did they use the plastic pad to change the height of the filter to line up the pipes? BTW, that’s a nice, new, big filter!

Don’t know what kind of automation options a Screen Logic has but here is one suggestion. If you ever have to replace that waterfall pump…I wouldn’t. I would just incorporate that return path into the other pump using an additional 3-way valve, hopefully with some automation capability to turn on the waterfall when you want it. As I said, I don’t know what your waterfall looks like (or more importantly, SOUNDS like), but it is really nice to run my waterfall at a trickle for the ambience, which is only possible with a VSP. Filtering/chlorinating/skimming the water via the waterfall OR returns is equivalent, no need to run both at the same time that I am aware of.

Do you have an auto-fill? One of the reasons I held off on a SWG for so long is that our environment (desert, Valley of the Sun) probably requires us to change our water every 3-4 years or so due to calcium concentration buildup. Any chance you can connect your pool autofill to a soft water tap?

Lastly…have you taken a close look at your chipout, I thought ours was kinda messy. My wife and I cleaned it up a bit by hand removing many of the “dangling chips” remaining. Don’t know if it had any impact on the final pebble finish application/adhesion, but I am sure it did not hurt. From the picture, yours does look cleaner than mine.

 

[ArtP]

Hey Art, some of your pictures don’t show up for me, in particular, the first two of the “chipout” pictures.

Curious! Thank you for letting me know. Is it better now? It looks like they didn't upload correctly initially. They showed up for me, while signed in, but I wasn't able to see them from a window where I wasn't signed in. I tried again, and only inserted thumbnails into the posts.

Replacing your concrete pad with a plastic one doesn’t seem like a great trade off…did they use the plastic pad to change the height of the filter to line up the pipes?

It seems weird to me too - they just dragged the concrete one out of the way and left it there. The new plastic one is the same height.

Don’t know what kind of automation options a Screen Logic has but here is one suggestion. If you ever have to replace that waterfall pump…I wouldn’t. I would just incorporate that return path into the other pump using an additional 3-way valve, hopefully with some automation capability to turn on the waterfall when you want it. As I said, I don’t know what your waterfall looks like (or more importantly, SOUNDS like), but it is really nice to run my waterfall at a trickle for the ambience, which is only possible with a VSP. Filtering/chlorinating/skimming the water via the waterfall OR returns is equivalent, no need to run both at the same time that I am aware of.

That's a good suggestion. My waterfall is a "sheer descent" type (picture below) so I'm not sure I'd want to run it on a trickle, but could probably run it just fine on a valve from the VSP.

Do you have an auto-fill? One of the reasons I held off on a SWG for so long is that our environment (desert, Valley of the Sun) probably requires us to change our water every 3-4 years or so due to calcium concentration buildup. Any chance you can connect your pool autofill to a soft water tap?

I do have an auto-fill, and that's a good point. Since I won't be backwashing anymore, I'm sure I'll see my calcium hardness ticking up over time. I'll have to spend some time thinking about what to do about that.

Lastly…have you taken a close look at your chipout, I thought ours was kinda messy. My wife and I cleaned it up a bit by hand removing many of the “dangling chips” remaining. Don’t know if it had any impact on the final pebble finish application/adhesion, but I am sure it did not hurt. From the picture, yours does look cleaner than mine.

I think they did a pretty good job cleaning it up - the crew hosed the whole thing down and pumped the water and remaining dust and chunks out. The PB owner stopped by during the chipout on Saturday, and his son was by today during the plumbing work, and they both seemed happy with the work.

Here's my waterfall - not much to look at when it's off, but it's fairly loud when it's running.

 

[ArtP]

I got my electrical work done last week and just haven't gotten around to posting about it. Not too exciting, honestly, until the automation is up and running. For now, it's just a newer breaker box powering the outlets and irrigation timer I had on the old one.

Since that was finished, the pool builder is waiting on me. I ordered some mosaics to replace my dolphins and seahorses I lost in the chip-out. Those are supposed to arrive Wednesday, and then we should be able to begin plastering right after that.

After plaster/pebble is in, how long does it need to be filled with water and curing before we can swim in it? My kids and I are all eager to use the pool now that the temps are surpassing 100 during the day.

 

[ArtP]

All the mosaics are in hand. The tile guy is supposed to come by tomorrow, hopefully, to set them. Then after that we'll be ready for plaster/pebble.

 

[ArtP]

Well, another delay. Most of my mosaics are installed, but we discovered one of them had two broken pieces that I assume broke during shipping. The seller is going to remake those two pieces and ship them out, hopefully within the next few days. I am super happy with how the rest look so far.

 

[ArtP]

13 days later and still no replacement parts. At this point, I have been messaging and calling the company almost daily asking if they are going to ship them or when they will show up. On Wednesday I called to ask, and they said they were shipping out that day. I called again on Thursday evening and the guy told me "they just came out of the kiln today, but it was too late to get them in the mail. They will go out tomorrow and I'll send you tracking info." Well, didn't hear anything from them yesterday. This morning I called, spoke to the same guy on the phone, and asked him about it. He said "just a minute" and put me on hold, then the call disconnected. Tried calling back several times after that and got a "all our representatives are busy" message. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt here, but what the heck? Are they going to ship these parts or not!? If not, why wouldn't they just say so? Why say they're producing the parts and ready to ship them if they're not? I'm starting to get rather frustrated - these mosaics are NOT cheap. And I understand why - they're beautiful handmade tiles. But, I'm not sure what's going on with their customer service. My pool builder keeps texting me asking if we can move forward with pebbling the pool. At this point, I think I'll be lucky to have water in it by the 4th of July...

Sorry for the long post and lack of updates, just wanted somewhere to vent!

 

[ArtP]

FINALLY! As of today, I have my replacement pieces for the broken tiles. However, with Independence Day coming up, and me being out of town one night next week, I think I'll have to schedule the pebble for the week of the 10th. It is really disappointing having to wait this long to be able to fill and use the pool, but hopefully it'll look great and be worth it in the end.

 

[ArtP]

I got my whales, the pieces that gave me so much trouble, installed yesterday. They look great, and they'll look even better once the pool is pebbled!

 

[ArtP]

The pebble was completed on Monday, acid wash and fill on Tuesday. It took about 14 hours to fill with two hoses running in the pool. I attempted a bicarb startup just using buckets - I added about 30 lbs. of sodium bicarbonate, dissolving it in buckets and periodically adding it to the pool as it filled. I think it worked as plaster dust has been pretty minimal, and the water looks fairly clear already. I'll post some pictures after the pump has had a chance to run for a day or two.

I've had a heck of a time figuring out programming my EasyTouch panel (see thread here: HELP! With configuring EasyTouch Control Panel.) but with help from awesome TFP members, I've made some progress.

Since the pool is completed, it's time for some photos!



Signature updated with the new pool details. I also learned that my pool is only about 11,000 gallons from checking the water meter before and after. So a little bit smaller than I thought.

 

[ArtP]

Three day old plaster.