Aquarite w/old software, setting cell type?

[JamesW]

Raise the salinity a few hundred ppm.

As long as the salinity reading is above 2,400 ppm on the box, it should work.

It will give a low salinity warning below 2,800 ppm, but it will still work.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Pool place salinity came back at 3800ppm.

Wasn’t totally evident what system they were using but I’m pretty sure I saw a digital tester versus anything reagent based.

Really questioning that result.

Headed for a second opinion from another place shortly.

 

[JamesW]

3,800 ppm when set to T-5, but using a T-3, should result in a reading of about 2,850 assuming the T-3 cell is good.

It's 4 years old. So, maybe it's not quite as new as the seller says.

Maybe just get a new T-15 cell.

 

[PrivatePilot]

So, here's the latest update.

I've noticed that with low flow on my VSP the sensed salt level plummets and the SWG falls into "salt too low" mode. I have the pump set to run an 8 hour very low speed filter/stir cycle for 8 hours every night and it seems like there's no way at all I'll be able to make any chlorine during this period without increasing my pump speed.

Oddly enough I was experiencing the same thing when my solar controller has the solar system enabled - I'd had my VSP set to trigger at 2250RPM for solar duties and the PPM on the instant display was falling to below the minimum to keep the SWG running. When I raised the pump up to 2500RPM the instant PPM display came back up fairly noticeably and the SWG started making chlorine again no problem.

With the solar in bypass mode however the instant PPM display on the controller promptly skyrockets once the solar is out of the loop and the controller happily makes chlorine even at lower RPM on the VSP.

So, being new to me, I'm guessing these systems are very picky about flow rates. The old Intex system I replaced would make chlorine all night long even with the VSP set to only 750-1000RPM.

Our electricity is normally quite expensive here which is why I always have my VSP set to the lowest functional speeds for the task at hand, and focused a lot of my filtration cycle during the (cheaper electricity rates) overnight period. I'm guessing I'm not going to be able to do that anymore.

 

[JamesW]

If the cell is mounted horizontally, try putting the hump down.

With the hump up, air can get trapped and reduce chlorine production.

 

[PrivatePilot]

If the cell is mounted horizontally, try putting the hump down.

With the hump up, air can get trapped and reduce chlorine production.

Aha!

It is indeed hump up right now.

Will flip it tomorrow morning and do some more testing and report back again.

Because of the location of all my equipment and the configuration of all the valves and such I'm pretty limited to only one spot for the cell so horizontal was the only option. But the orientation issue does make sense now, looking into the other cell I have here. And it's not surprising there's air issues as there is a vacuum breaker on the solar panel so air is introduced into the return lines every single time the solar cycles on and off.

Thanks!

 

[PrivatePilot]

Well, I may just leave well enough alone - I increased the RPM settings just marginally on the VSP and now the salt system is working absolutely perfectly - here’s the electrical signature from the last hours.



It cycled through its duty cycle 3 times overnight with no unexpected gaps. With today’s solar cycle starting at 11:30 (when the sun reaches my panels) it went through it’s first duty cycle flawlessly and is currently running on the second.

If the “KISS” solution was just to increase my pump speeds a little, well, I can live with that.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Spoke too soon, on the overnight filter cycle it only completed one cycle last night and clearly errored out on the second 2.

I'll flip the cell today.

 

[JamesW]

What is the instant salinity reading?

The instant salinity reading and the average salinity reading both need to stay above 2,400 ppm.

What electricity monitor do you have?

Do you like it?

What does it cost and what can it do?

 

[PrivatePilot]

I haven't flipped the cell yet and I'm pretty sure what you were describing is the issue - at low RPM on the VSP the cell has a lot of air trapped in there versus water. When I observed instant vs average salinity a few days ago when I first noticed this problem the pump speed had a huge effect - I saw it drop as low as 1200ppm at low speed but then swing drastically upwards to 2900ppm when I picked up the speed.

Re the energy Monitor, it's a "Sense". Sense: Track energy use in real time to make your home more energy efficient.

I love it. It's not for the impatient as the native device learning process can take quite a while - I've had it for 2 years and it's still occasionally popping up new detections, and some things will never be detectable natively, but they support a few energy monitoring plugs as a piggyback solution for devices that are difficult or impossible to detect natively - the SWG system would be one of those as it's a reasonably unstable/wavy load (I'll post a picture of the waveform in a more granular display later) so it was the solution. I do have the SWG system plugged into a TP-Link HS110 which then feeds it's energy consumption data back to the Sense system and into the app which is where the screenshots are coming from.

 

[JamesW]

Ok, thanks; it's definitely helpful to have good information like the monitor provides to detect and diagnose problems.

 

[mguzzy]

@JamesW I have a vague recollection that the "hump" in the cell had a purpose when mounted horizontally. Was it a drainage thing, or something to do with the turbulent flow across the plates. I just want to make sure flipping the cell will have no deleterious effects.

Our electricity is normally quite expensive here which is why I always have my VSP set to the lowest functional speeds for the task at hand, and focused a lot of my filtration cycle during the (cheaper electricity rates) overnight period. I'm guessing I'm not going to be able to do that anymore.

Seems to me upping your pump speed would be a better option. It sounds like you are running too close to the operational limit for the SWG . Is there a problem with bumping it all up a bit.. with a VSP its not going to cost all that much more. .. a few extra Loonies a month? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[JamesW]

Note that the power usage from the monitor is probably not accurate if it's measuring the amps and multiplying the amperage by the voltage.

This is due to the power factor of the cell power supply being low.

For example, if the volts x amps are 100 and the power factor is 0.75, the actual power usage is 75 watts.

An actual watt-meter would show the actual watts.

The box diagnostic readouts for dc volts x dc amps should be accurate for actual power usage.

You can compare the monitor watt reading to the diagnostic readings for dc volts x dc amps to see what the power factor is for the SWG.

 

[JamesW]

I have a vague recollection that the "hump" in the cell had a purpose when mounted horizontally. Was it a drainage thing, or something to do with the turbulent flow across the plates. I just want to make sure flipping the cell will have no deleterious effects.

Flipping the cell will not have any adverse effects.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Just flipped the cell, and sure enough it made a significant difference - instant read out (with everything else including the pump
RPM) went from 2100 up to alternating between 2700/2800, so let’s say 2750.

Did a recalibrate (since the average has slowly slid south to the point where it was kicking offline) and it seems happy again.

 

[JamesW]

Here are some actual measurements from a T-15 cell.

Supply: 179 watts, 221 volt-amps, 0.81 power factor. (113.9 volts ac, 1.94 amps).

Delivered to the cell: 24.3 volts dc, 5.84 amps, 142 watts.

So, that indicates that about 37 watts are used by the power supply that are not delivered to the cell. Some is lost as heat by the transformer and some is used by the controller.

The T-15 produces about 2.6 times as much chlorine as a T-3. So, the power at supply should be about 69 watts actual or about 85 volt-amps assuming a power factor of 0.81.

The DC amperage should be about 2.25 to 3 amps depending on the water temperature and the salinity.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Last 24 hours things have run perfectly. I think flipping the cell was the last piece of the puzzle.

 

[JamesW]

Good news. Thanks for the update.

What are the amps and instant salinity while the cell is generating?

 

[PrivatePilot]

Just to put some closure on this thread, I’m happy to be able to report that a month in now and things are running like clockwork. Salt level in the pool is higher than I’d like (you can certainly taste it on your lips now) but it’s not a biggie in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks for everyone’s help with this.