agreed. the add of ma (test) was not drastic, it showed some improvement. the test strips cant be wildly off. my k2006 kit will be here in a few days, i can then get more precise numbers.
Alk too high
- Thread starter Pool_Kid
- Start date
I think it's good that you are waiting until you receive your test kit.
How do you normally chlorinate your pool?
Also, please add your pool's details to your signature as explained in the Getting Started section of Pool School. This will assist others in helping with your pool.
See my signature as an example.
Dom
How do you normally chlorinate your pool?
Also, please add your pool's details to your signature as explained in the Getting Started section of Pool School. This will assist others in helping with your pool.
See my signature as an example.
Dom
hold up folks, the sticky on Spas sections says that high alk makes it hard for ph to change, so i guess the quote i have in my post below is correct:
How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?
"Alkalinity is a pH Buffer. High levels of TA will not allow pH to change from additions of acid or base"
i use Chlor Brite. i will update my info. its a 7x7 365gal LA Spas Maui spa
- May 23, 2015
- 24,436
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Both borates and carbonates (bicarbonates mostly at pool pH) contribute to the alkalinity of the water. The Total Alkalinity (TA) is just the sum of all species in the water that can accept a proton (in some cases 2 protons). It is defined as the amount of strong acid required to neutralize all of the alkalinity and drop the pH to a value of 4.5 (that's the green-to-red transition you see in the test).
Bicarbonate is both a source of pH buffering AND a cause of pH rise. When CO2 outgasses from the water, the bicarbonate reacts with a proton (consumes acid) and creates more CO2 to make up for the CO2 lost to outgassing. This is why your pH increases with aeration. The reason why we recommended lowering spa TA to 50ppm is because hot, bubbly spas will outgas CO2 more quickly and have very sharp pH increases. So if you lower the TA (which is mostly bicarbonate) to 50ppm, that helps a lot. The problem is, 50ppm TA may not be enough to buffer acidity changes so it is also HIGHLY recommended that your add 50ppm borates to the water to act as an additional buffer.
In my own pool water, I keep my TA down at 60ppm (sometimes 50ppm but that's hard to maintain with high TA fill water) and I have 50ppm borates. My pH is very stable. So when I run my spa, I add acid prior to going into the spa to drop the pH and TA so that it stays low during use. The 50ppm borates ensures that my spa water does not swing wildly in pH.
Bicarbonate is both a source of pH buffering AND a cause of pH rise. When CO2 outgasses from the water, the bicarbonate reacts with a proton (consumes acid) and creates more CO2 to make up for the CO2 lost to outgassing. This is why your pH increases with aeration. The reason why we recommended lowering spa TA to 50ppm is because hot, bubbly spas will outgas CO2 more quickly and have very sharp pH increases. So if you lower the TA (which is mostly bicarbonate) to 50ppm, that helps a lot. The problem is, 50ppm TA may not be enough to buffer acidity changes so it is also HIGHLY recommended that your add 50ppm borates to the water to act as an additional buffer.
In my own pool water, I keep my TA down at 60ppm (sometimes 50ppm but that's hard to maintain with high TA fill water) and I have 50ppm borates. My pH is very stable. So when I run my spa, I add acid prior to going into the spa to drop the pH and TA so that it stays low during use. The 50ppm borates ensures that my spa water does not swing wildly in pH.
Also, the borates are a stronger buffer as the pH gets higher so are very well-suited to when a hypochlorite chlorine source is used (i.e. when not using a net acidic source of chlorine). You can see this effect in the table in pH Buffer Capacity.
ok, got my Taylor kit, here are the #'s
ph 7.4 (near the middle, ok)
TA 110 (on the high side)
CH 70 (recall that i fill 80% soft water and 20% very hard water, is low CH bad?)
FC 16.5 (this seems high)
CC 1 (is this good?)
for the past 12mo i have used nothing but test strips. so where do i go from here.
ph 7.4 (near the middle, ok)
TA 110 (on the high side)
CH 70 (recall that i fill 80% soft water and 20% very hard water, is low CH bad?)
FC 16.5 (this seems high)
CC 1 (is this good?)
for the past 12mo i have used nothing but test strips. so where do i go from here.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,436
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
What is your stabilizer (CYA) level? That is very important considering your high FC.
Your CC's being at 1ppm is not great but could be a result of not uncovering the spa enough or if your stabilizer is too high (high CYA means lower active chlorine level). Is your spa covered? Does it get any sunlight? Does your spa have a built-in UV or Ozone source? The CC's could also be an indication of built up biofilms in your piping. So you might need to deep clean the spa using a product like AhhSome.
Low calcium is not necessarily bad for the spa (I assume it's fiberglass) but it is typically recommended to have the CH at or above 100ppm so as to avoid excessive foaming. If foaming is not an issue, then you can probably leave your calcium level as-is.
Your CC's being at 1ppm is not great but could be a result of not uncovering the spa enough or if your stabilizer is too high (high CYA means lower active chlorine level). Is your spa covered? Does it get any sunlight? Does your spa have a built-in UV or Ozone source? The CC's could also be an indication of built up biofilms in your piping. So you might need to deep clean the spa using a product like AhhSome.
Low calcium is not necessarily bad for the spa (I assume it's fiberglass) but it is typically recommended to have the CH at or above 100ppm so as to avoid excessive foaming. If foaming is not an issue, then you can probably leave your calcium level as-is.
CYA came in at 80. the 386gal spa is acrylic. it has a ozonator (i think UV). covered most of the time. runs two 1hr cleaning cycles per day and injects air during the cycles. i dont have any foaming issues. i use about 1 tblsp of clarifier and 1 tsp of metal-free per wk. i also have a N2 silver stick.
user manual says:
"The best chlorine for your spa is a granular Dichlor compound."
muriatic acid seems to do better pulling TA down than the dry acid i use.
user manual says:
"The best chlorine for your spa is a granular Dichlor compound."
muriatic acid seems to do better pulling TA down than the dry acid i use.
The two acids should be the same in terms of lowering TA if you are dosing them properly where the volume in fluid ounces of full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) is roughly the same as that of dry acid (93.2% Sodium Bisulfate).
You shouldn't need to use clarifier if you are properly dosing with enough chlorine after each soak, but if you use only Dichlor then you will build up CYA because for every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Dichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 9 ppm. The higher CYA over time lowers chlorine effectiveness so that it can end up not oxidizing bather waste quickly enough so the water gets dull/cloudy sooner and disinfection rates also drop. The way to avoid this is to switch to using bleach instead of Dichlor when the CYA reaches 30-40 ppm or so. See this sticky for the Dichlor-then-bleach method.
You shouldn't need to use clarifier if you are properly dosing with enough chlorine after each soak, but if you use only Dichlor then you will build up CYA because for every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Dichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 9 ppm. The higher CYA over time lowers chlorine effectiveness so that it can end up not oxidizing bather waste quickly enough so the water gets dull/cloudy sooner and disinfection rates also drop. The way to avoid this is to switch to using bleach instead of Dichlor when the CYA reaches 30-40 ppm or so. See this sticky for the Dichlor-then-bleach method.
ok, so maybe now i use bleach until this water is swapped, just so the CYA doesnt go higher.