Adding Spa and already confused!!!

[mas985]

6 single jets will run on a separate 2hp pump, 3 jet main fold will run with existing 1.5 HP circulation pump with valve control and still don’t know about the foot jets pump. Any suggestions to have 2 pumps instead of 3 ?.

Yes, that would work fine although you probably don't need a 2 HP pump for 6 jets at 60 GPM. But it wasn't clear where he is using the 2.5" pipe and where he is using the 2" pipe.

So here is my suggestion. Use the 2.5" pipe or better yet 3" pipe for all 9 jets run off of the 2 HP Whisperflo (WFE-8). That pump should easily handle all 9 jets.

Then I would use the main pump for just the floor jets. I don't think you would need much flow rate for those.

 

[alfa01]

I tried to post some picture but web site uploader doesnt let me so 2.5" pipes are used as this. One 2.5" pipe used to Jets Water Line and One used for one of the Suction lines. 2nd suciton line is 2" pipe and Air Line is 2" pipe as well . At this point changing 2.5" pipes to 3" woud be more work and extra charges for me as PB already installed. I wll try to post pictures again. Thank again

 

[mas985]

Follow these directions for posting photos:

Posting Photo's Tutorial

 

[alfa01]

Here are the pictures that I toke today. Please comment . I know it is messy out there but it is getting cleaner day by day.

 

[alfa01]

No. Spa jets always use a venturi tee that mixes air and water. The blower is just to clear the air line of water because of a poor design.

You can see the tees used in this document: Poly Storm

My PB says that when you install a check valve at the air blower then you don't need a Hartford loop because check valve plays a role of a Hartford loop which is to prevent water going back to the air blower. Is this a correct statement.? All information that I found states to install the Hartford loop as close as possible to the spa. It would really look ugly if I insist on it to be installed next to the spa as I have a limited space / deck area but if it would be ok to install at 35 feet of it, where my equipment is then I would defiantly install it. Thank you for your time.

 

[mas985]

Yes but that's not the point. I would not want a loud blower that uses a lot of energy if I didn't need it. How about you?

In my mind, the goal should be to design the spa plumbing so you don't need a blower. A check valve without Hartford loop will never work without a blower.

 

[alfa01]

A check valve without Hartford loop will never work without a blower.

Me either but would you clarify your last sentence for me please. Did you ment check valve without a loop will never work without a blower ? or with a blower?


1. Would it be ok to install a hartford loop 35 feet from the spa at the equipment pad.? ( I have seen some pictures on the net )
2. What is the proper design to achive the goal so you dont need a blower.?
3. What happens to the end pipe after the Hartford loop without a blower.? Do you leave it min. of a feet above the water level with open end for air suction.?

Thank You

 

[mas985]

In order to obviate the need for a blower, you need to have a Hartford loop very close to the spa. They are usually put into the spa wall but it would work a few feet away too. They are meant to prevent the air pipe from filling with water so they need to be very close to the spa.

Otherwise, a 35' pipe full of water (no Hartford loop) can only be cleared with a blower. If you had only 15' of air pipe, you might be able to get away without a Hartford loop and without a blower. But with a longer air pipe, you need the loop to prevent the pipe from filling.


Your questions:

1. NO. It must be near the spa. Again, this is to prevent the air pipe from filling with water. The longer the pipe with water, the harder it is to clear.

2. Once again. You must have a Hartford loop at/near the spa. You should also have a large air pipe >= 2.5". You should also limit the number of bends in the air pipe. A straight shot is ideal. Also, you need good water through the venturis but I think you are ok there.

3. The pipe only needs to be a few inches about ground/water level. There are pipe caps that you can put on the pipe that allow air in but not critters.

 

[alfa01]

Mark,

Long story short here is (see the picture below) where I was able to insist to put the Hartord loop. Please tell me if it is ok. This is going to be left under concrete. My question is that we cant put a check valve here as it is going be left under the concrete or any recomendation from you would appreciated. On the other hand We can put check valve at the equipment pad at blower.?? Thank you

 

[mas985]

That should be fine and will help quite a bit.

Also, if your equipment will be higher than the spa, another trick is to next take that pipe downward deep enough so it has a gentle slope upward to the pad. So even if a little water gets over the loop, it will remain next to the spa and will get cleared out by the suction.

But if your equipment is lower than the spa, another trick is to use a second inverted loop (a U shape) to trap any additional water that gets by the Hartford close to the spa.

Either way, that should help to keep the water in close proximity to the spa and prevent the air pipe from filling with water.

But it looks like he is planning to use 2" for the air pipe to the equipment?

I wanted to also mention that you can bring the air pipe up above ground at the nearest possible location to the spa which will help reduce the air friction in the pipe. Without a blower, you don't need to bring all the way back to the pad.

 

[alfa01]

My spa is raised 18" above pool deck and equipment pad would be 5" higher than the pool deck so I assume it makes my equipment higher than the spa at least the blower would be much higher. I will ask them about downward which would be very easy to do. Unfortunately pipe is 2" but with blower I think it would be ok?. You didn't mention about eh check valve so I guess it would be one at the blower. I was only able to insist 2.5" pipe on spa jet and on one of suction line.

 

[mas985]

Again, I am focused on a design where you won't need the blower but that is up to you.

But you shouldn't need a check valve at the equipment pad because water should not get that far with the other precautions. Initially, I would leave off the check valve and blower and see how it works. Installing either will prevent the jets from working without a blower.

 

[alfa01]

Two foot jets are split and share water & air line. PB say no need for a loop ( don't even have space though) because pipes are downward.

 

[mas985]

It appears as though the water level will be above the air line and so it will fill with water. If it does, then you may need the blower to clear it out. A loop can be put in near the outside of the spa. As long as the top of the loop is above the water level, it will work.

 

[alfa01]

This one I might pass as I dont want to push this PB though I have all the rights. PB & his craw have to do more ladnscaping in my back yard. Per contract he is going to provide 1.5 HP blower so I will use that one for the footjets. I will post the final plumbing for the spa before gunite. Than you

 

[alfa01]

Here are some updated pictures. Comments welcomes. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[alfa01]

Is it ok to install a air blower without attaching to a post. ?

Thanks

 

[mas985]

If it were me, I would not attach the blower right away until you try the spa without the blower. You cannot attach a blower and test it without the blower running because it would have too much restriction.

 

[alfa01]

Hello,
You all would think that I'm enjoying my spa? I wish.... Long story short.... My craw hasn't show up a month already. I'm shopping around to get a new guy who can finish this nightmare for me. I stock with no plaster and 99% tile finish. I live in San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles and would like to have some referrals if you know anyone out here. Thank you in advance.

 

[alfa01]

Hi Mark,

Hope all is well!. My spa is finally up and ruining. I end up firing the old craw which cost me so many problems. Long story short the jets are running good with Hartford loop and strong air suction from the air pipe and no need for blower as you have indicated before. Some jets are not that strong and probably those are from the jets so I haven't figure that out yet.

The foot jets that were installed on the bottom are not that strong with circulation pump. I need some advice on this one. It is separate direct line connected with a valve to a main circulation pump. The way it operated is useless. The jets show some auction when I reroute the spa return to those jets but still not effective. I also noticed at that time spa losses water to the pool. ??? Would it be ok to cut this line and install separate waterfall pump to have some strong auction.? It doesn't have separate suction line though. Thank you in advance.