Acid start or chlorine start after re plaster?

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Thanks again Matt, would it be advisable to add acid to the fill water to lower the TA somewhat, or do I leave alone until the break in time is over? Right now the weather here is too cold but I plan on having the plaster job done in the next 30 days or so, so I should be an expert by then. Lol


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Lykly said:
Thanks again Matt, would it be advisable to add acid to the fill water to lower the TA somewhat, or do I leave alone until the break in time is over? Right now the weather here is too cold but I plan on having the plaster job done in the next 30 days or so, so I should be an expert by then. Lol


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A lot of this is going to depend on the start up process your plasterer chooses to use. If you were doing the bicarbonate startup process, then you would leave your fill water as-is for the 30-day cure time. The bicarb process only has you add acid to keep the pH between 7.8-8.0. So the only time you add acid is to bring the pH down a little to target a value of 7.8. Then, when the 30-days are up, you start the acid-aeration process.

If your plasterer decides to use an acid start process, well, that's up to him. You'll be able to drop the pH down to 7.0-7.2 range but, given that initial TA, I wouldn't be surprised if the pH bounces up to 7.8 in a few hours. I'm not sure how one performs an acid start process with such a high initial TA because it will require A LOT of acid to keep the pH down for the duration of the acid-start process.

Find out from your plasterer what his startup process is, then we can go into more detail.
 
Thank you JoyfulNoise. I will encourage the plasterer to allow me to do this bicarbonate start up, hopefully he will agree. It will likely be 2 to 3 weeks before the weather will cooperate, maybe longer, so I may be quiet for a while but I will be back after I speak with them, and for more of your advice. I appreciate you helping me through this. You are extremely helpful. Thank you.


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Lykly said:
Thank you JoyfulNoise. I will encourage the plasterer to allow me to do this bicarbonate start up, hopefully he will agree. It will likely be 2 to 3 weeks before the weather will cooperate, maybe longer, so I may be quiet for a while but I will be back after I speak with them, and for more of your advice. I appreciate you helping me through this. You are extremely helpful. Thank you.


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You're welcome. Hopefully your plasterer is open minded. You can always contact user onBalance and he can point you to the detailed online information he has regarding bicarbonate start ups. I believe there's a very informative technical brochure in PDF format about the process.


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Divin Dave said:
Here is a very good thread of bdavis466 bicarb startup. Lots of good stuff here and lots of good input from chem geek and OnBalance.
Bicarb Start-up
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I have built a handful pools and always left the start up to the plaster contractor...and never thought twice about it. Once I found this site, I stumbled across the bicarb start up and really liked the thought process behind it. I chose to do it on was my own personal pool and believed so strongly in it that I told my plaster contractor that i wasn't interested in any start up at all from him. He was very reluctant but agreed once I told him that this is how its going to go if he wants this job and any future jobs from here on out.

The process is not complicated and the only downside I saw was the need to add acid daily and the overall quantity of acid I went through (~50 gallons in the first month).

Your fill water is already ideal for the bicarb start and depending on the rate of pH rise from the plaster curing, you may not go through all that much acid.

As stated above, Onbalance is the resident expert on the topic and he was very helpful during the entire operation. ChemGeek and recent challenger Matt (JFN), are currently dueling chemistry swords for the 2015 TFP propeller hat, but both have a wealth of knowledge and can give guidance when the time arises.

As Dave mentioned, I made a thread to follow the process and show the progression...Thanks Dave!

Good luck!
 
bdavis466 said:
ChemGeek and recent challenger Matt (JFN), are currently dueling chemistry swords for the 2015 TFP propeller hat, but both have a wealth of knowledge and can give guidance when the time arises.
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LOL! That's funny and made me spit beer out my nose when I read it ;)

When in doubt, always listen to chem geek! Should he be abducted by aliens and there's no way to contact him, I will do my best to search the TFP Archives and cut & paste what he has written ;)


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Divin Dave said:
My pleasure Brian, and thank you for sharing your start up. Its one of my favorite threads.
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I'm flattered...I just wish I knew what I do now!

Thanks again Dave. You are welcome in my pool anytime!

- - - Updated - - -

JoyfulNoise said:
LOL! That's funny and made me spit beer out my nose when I read it ;)

When in doubt, always listen to chem geek! Should he be abducted by aliens and there's no way to contact him, I will do my best to search the TFP Archives and cut & paste what he has written ;)


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Just watch out, I'm going to be a contender in 2016!

You aren't giving yourself enough credit, you are right up there with the Geek (who I'm pretty sure is an alien already).
 

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After reading that other thread, I'm a little bit intimidated. I am not a chemist by any means. I'm hoping I can fill and adjust pH and TA accordingly? I am a bit nervous.


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You don't have to be a chemist Lykly, the chemistry has already been done. :)

You will need to know how to test the water with a proper test kit, which would be the TF-100 or the Taylor K2006C so you can test and know what the levels are.
And know what your 'target' levels should be. And need to know how to use pool math. Pool math will do the calculation for you and tell you how much of something to add to the water.

Regardless of which type of start up you go with, you are going to have to know this stuff and make frequent adjustments to the water anyway. The bi carb start will just require more frequent testing and adding stuff for the first month or so.

It's all really a LOT easier than it sounds.

If you dont have a proper test kit already, I would recommend to go ahead and get one BEFORE water goes into the pool. You can practice using it on your tap water. If you wait until water is already in the pool before you get a test kit and learn how to use pool math, then you will be wayyyy behind the 8 Ball.

I also highly recommend to read the ABCs of Pool Water in Pool School. The ABC's are the starting point in learning how to manage the water, and explains how one chemical effects another.
Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry


Lykly said:
After reading that other thread, I'm a little bit intimidated. I am not a chemist by any means. I'm hoping I can fill and adjust pH and TA accordingly? I am a bit nervous.


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No worries! It can be done by anyone. All you need is the test kit! You already have everything else you need-----TFP's top helpers!

Do NOT worry about asking and double checking to make sure you understand. That is what TFP is all about-----knowing your pool and how to care for it.

Kim
 
I so did NOT know how to do a pool that the pool store helped me ruin my first pool! The CYA got so high and the PH was so off that my liner "dry rotted" with water in it!

When my husband made noise about wanting another pool I had him find a was I could take care of it as I was NEVER going in another pool store! He found TFP and I started reading.

I went so far as order the test kit BEFORE I even bought the pool to make sure I could do the tests! The test kit came in, I took a deep breath, watched the videos then tested the house water. It was a breeze! Hey I can do this!

We ordered the pool, had it put up and BOTH of us love it now!

You CAN do this! We will guide you and cheer you along the way!

Kim
 
I ordered and received the TFP test kit, so I am ready with that. I have a hot tub, so I am somewhat familiar as I use a taylor kit for the testing I do with it. I will do this knowing I have you all behind me to keep me out of trouble. Probably be a bit for weather to allow the job. So far I will ask plasterer to allow this type of fill, no added calcium, and wait 6 hrs to start fill. anything else I should ask him in preparation?
 
No, it is just plaster. Probably go with a off white per recommendation, currently a darker grey or blue I am guessing. Plasterer said he recommends a lighter color then current. Said it will still look blue but show less blemish?
 
Darker colored plaster (grey, etc) typically have a mottled look (light and dark regions) and rarely have uniform color. That's just the nature of dark plaster. It can be made worse by poor troweling techniques so you want to make sure only experienced plasterers are doing the job if you go with a dark color.


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