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Thread: OmniLogic one-month review

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    OmniLogic one-month review

    Hi all-

    Last month I replaced an old single-speed pump, ancient Aqua-Rite (pre-2006) and Compool CP3800 with a Hayward OmniLogic, new SWG cell, and an Ecostar VS. The cell and pump do exactly what you'd expect, but the OmniLogic has some pros and cons. Here's my review so far. I'm assuming you have the 1.40 interface firmware. If you don't, upgrade -- 1.40 is much better than older versions.

    Programming:

    Programming the OmniLogic is relatively painless. There's a series of menus that you can go through to add equipment and configure everything. For a single-equipment system (like mine), you configure the pump and heater for each body of water and add other "features" associated with each body of water. You can also add "backyard" features like lights that aren't associated with any body of water.

    The variable speed pump control is flexible enough but a bit confused. If you have an EcoStar VS (the best-supported pump with full percentage control), you get to define a minimum and maximum RPM (unclear what those do -- shouldn't the controller just ask the pump?), a minimum and maximum user-settable percentage (affects the custom pump controls), and a "low", "medium", and "high" speed. You can do these separately for the pool and spa. You can also set a minimum pump speed for the heater -- if the heater turns on, the pump will speed up to that speed if needed and, when the heater turns off, the pump will slow back down.

    The heater control is missing a feature, though -- you can tell the OmniLogic to keep the pump on for five minutes after the heater turns off, but you can't tell the pump to stay at full heater speed for a few seconds after the heater turns off. I want the latter to prevent a jet of too-hot water in the spa when the heater cycles off.

    The integration between the pump and the chlorinator is bad. The built-in chlorinator is tied to a flow switch, and the OmniLogic will complain at you if you have insufficient flow when the chlorinator wants to turn on. This makes sense, but there should be a minimum pump speed for the chlorinator, and it should not complain if the flow switch doesn't trigger when the pump is below the specified minimum speed to operate the chlorinator.

    Using the OmniLogic also seems to disable the standard EcoStar VS feature that will run at high speed until it detects that it's primed.

    Scheduling:

    You can set multiple scheduled on times for basically everything. When scheduling a pump, you can set the speed. Some of it is glitchy, though. For example, when scheduling the chlorinator, it asks you to set a percentage even if you're using ORP control, which is probably a bug. If you actually enable this, the UI gets very confused.

    General use:

    Honestly, just using the OmniLogic is a step down from the ancient CP3800. With the CP3800, if I or a guest wanted to use the spa, we'd push the "spa" button and it would light up. Then we'd set the spa temperature setpoint, which was always displayed. That was all. When we were done, we'd push the spa button again. If we wanted jets, we'd push the jet button.

    With the OmniLogic, to get to the spa mode controls, you look at the left side of the display, which pointlessly cycles between "pool" and "spa". (This is a single-equipment set up -- it's either in pool mode, spa mode, or neither. Trying to show both is silly.) If it shows "pool" and you want "spa", then you swipe. Where do you swipe? Somewhere on the left side of the screen. Which way do you swipe? Unclear. Does it do a nice swipey animation like any modern phone to make it clear what's happening? No. Once it shows "spa", you tap the temperature. (How do you know to do that? Trial and error.) This gives a display where you can activate the pump (but you have to choose a speed -- why should my guests have to do that?) and optionally turn on the jets (and chlorinator, etc.)

    When you're done with the spa, you can either guess what settings to change to put everything back, or you can press the "power" icon, push "features off", and check the check box. (You can also screw up by pressing the "power" button and turning the whole system off. That shouldn't be allowed unless you're doing it from the main control box.)

    The upshot is that it takes way more taps to do anything that the number of button presses needed on the CP3800. This is too bad.

    You can try to configure "favorites" and "themes" to help out. It's unclear to me that this is useful.

    Service mode:

    Service mode is basically useless. It takes too many presses and too much searching to enable it. Once it's enabled, the UI is nonsensical. You can directly control the "filter pump" or the "filter pump". One is the pool filter pump and one is the spa filter pump. Unfortunately, the display doesn't distinguish them at all, nor is it clear what it even means to control them separately. Trying to drain or fill the spa is even worse. On the CP3800, there were buttons for everything you'd likely want to do.

    Mobile/web control:

    This is kind of neat. Unfortunately it's unclear how the mobile UI works, it's incredibly buggy (the set of controllable options is flat-out wrong -- I'm currently on hold w/ Hayward to see if they can figure out why), and it has ludicrous options like "Power Off: System shut down". If you do that while you're on vacation, you have a problem.

    The web UI is better, but it still makes things too complicated. There's also a bit of confusion between "Pool", "Spa" and "Backyard". Backyard appears to be a selection under "Pool" or "Spa", but, once you choose it, the "Pool" and "Spa" toggle goes away. There should be a choice of "Pool", "Spa" or "Backyard" -- they're all disjoint sets of settings.

    Also, there's no API as far as I can tell. iAqualink offers an API, and that would be a really nice feature.

    Finally, a word of advice: don't even bother buying the wireless network link. Either hardwire it for real (like I did), get your own wifi bridge (way cheaper) or use Ethernet over powerline (also way cheaper).


    That's all. I'll try to keep this updated.
    40k gallon covered plaster in-ground pool, detached spa w/ underground spillover, Ecostar VS pump, cartridge filter, OmniLogic w/ T-15 SWG, Sense and dispense (chlorine only)

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Nice review, and I'm sure some members will find this helpful, so thank you.

    Welcome to TFP! Enjoy your time here.
    TFP Moderator
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    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    I've been meaning to chime in for a while to this thread. I installed an OmniLogic panel myself this spring (along with a wired remote panel inside the house, an EcoStar VS pump, and four GVA-24 actuators). The install went well, and everything is up and running. In general I'd say that the OmniLogic firmware definitely feels like a "beta" product - there are a number of things on the user interface that aren't super-intuitive, and could stand to be cleaned up. However nothing has affected the core functionality (i.e. pump runs, accessories work reliably, etc). Hopefully the interface will be refined over the next few months and then the OmniLogic will realize it's full potential.

    Here are a few specific issues I've had / complaints / improvement suggestions. (if anyone has any solutions for any of these "issues" please let me know!)

    1) Chlorination feature has an option to set a schedule, but it apparently doesn't do anything. Whether or not I set a schedule, the SaltCell stays "on" all the time. I called Hayward tech support about this, and was told that there is no schedule fo the chlorinator, and it turns on/off based on the flow switch. If that's the case, then there shouldn't be an option to set a schedule (causes confusion). Also, it seems more correct to me that there should be an automatic interlock between FilterPump->Chlorinator, so the Chlorinator turns off when the pump is not on. Also, I've noticed that the Chlorinator has occasionally generated a "low temp" alarm overnight when it's cooler, and the water is sitting idle in the pipes and the chlorintor is still "on".

    2) Alarms seem unreliable, and not fully thought out. I don't always get alarms (i.e. sometimes I get an email with a cleared alarm state, but never saw a set, or vice-versa). When I manually turn the filter pump off (for instance to empty the basket), I get a "low flow" alarm - that alarm should be filtered. The SmartPhone app doesn't support notifications for alarms.

    3) SmartPhone app interface needs a lot of work. I've finally figured out what to press where for various features (i.e. on;off, set timer/schedule, select body-of-water, etc), but it took a lot of trial & error to figure it out. It really looks primitive, and could definitely just use some serious UI cleanup in general.

    4) In general, the touchpad button interface is confusing in my opinion. The difference between the top level buttons for a feature (which just turn on/off), and the buttons once you select a body-of-water (which go into a sub-menu with on/off, schedule, timer, etc) is confusing for the average user. It seems like it should be streamlined so that when I see a button saying "Filter Pump", then it always does the same thing. Maybe something like short press for on/off, and press-and-hold for the sub menu. And I'd like to be able to fully control the button layout, which I don't think I can do.

    5) Related to #4, there's a "simple mode" which seems like it could be useful, but it's just too simple. There's no way to get into the schedule / timer options for a feature at all (as far as I can tell). The pool temperature display goes away (or maybe gets really small, I can't remember). With a little bit of refinement, Simple Mode seems like it could be useful, but it's not there

    6) The only way to turn all features off is to go into the shutdown menu. Huh? Why not let me have an "all features off" button like the others?

    7) There was a note above about OmniLogic + EcoStar preventing the pump from running at full speed until primed - I'm confused because mine does that. Maybe a firmware difference?

    8) I agree in general with the complaints about about navigating around the touchscreen. It just seems like there are too many presses to get simple stuff done. Also, I have only one body-of-water (no spa), so it seems like in my one-body case some of the UI could be more streamlined ... but it's not.

    9) I wish the main touchscreen would have "pool_temp + 3x2 icon grid" instead of "pool_temp + 2x2 icon grid" - the extra 2 icons (plus full icon layout control) would make navigation much better.

    PS - my firmware versions at the time of this writing are (from config / system info):
    MSP: R1.4.0-b19591
    MP: R1.0.5
    EcoStar: R3.0.7
    WallMount: R1.4.0
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    +1 on providing an API. Although the reason I want the API would be simple enough for them to incorporate into their interface. I want it for logging and graphing. I want to see graphs showing when pumps are on or off, what speed they ran at, water temp, etc. This way I can graph the effectiveness of running a water feature for cooling down the pool. My biggest complaint however is not being able to configure the Omni from the web interface. They're going to provide me an option to completely shut off the system from my phone yet I need to stand outside in the 100 degree heat to configure it?
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    It would be nice if Hayward would engage the user community, particularly through here, to solicit feedback and more importantly provide a list of things they are hoping to accomplish with the next firmware release.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Quote Originally Posted by travisr100 View Post
    It would be nice if Hayward would engage the user community, particularly through here, to solicit feedback and more importantly provide a list of things they are hoping to accomplish with the next firmware release.
    I agree. I even specifically asked them when I called tech support if there was any place I could send feedback / suggestions ... and I was told there was not.
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Thanks for the review! I also recently had a new pool installed which included an Omnilogic for the controller which was powered up at the end of this past May (2015). I have to say that I've been fairly happy with it, and with recent firmware updates, it's slowly getting better. Below are some of my concerns/comments/feedback/issues, but first, here's a quick overview of the equipment I have:
    -1x Ecostar variable speed pump
    -2x bodies of water (Pool: ~33k gallons and Spa: ~800 gallons)
    -3x Colorlogic LED lights
    -4x GAV-24 actuators
    -Solar Eclipse Ozone/UV sterilizer
    -In-floor cleaning system
    -Pentair automatic in-line (siphon) chlorine feeder
    -Gas heater
    -Solar heater


    1. Usability: Yes, it's quite confusing and hard to navigate through the menu on the controller itself, but it got a lot better in the latest MSP update (late July 2015). However, once it's setup, I strictly use the iOS app or web interface to control my pool. It took a bit of fussing around to see what-does-what and where I need to touch to adjust the various options or turn features on/off, but after using it a few times, I no longer have issues navigating or controlling my pool with the app. If you are going to setup schedules, I HIGHLY recommend to avoid the app, and especially the panel on the controller itself. Use the web interface, it's so much easier (even though it's a bit clunky), and you can view/sort all your schedules at the same time so you can check for overlaps and anything else that you may have missed or set incorrectly. FWIW, the iPad app is has a much better layout than the iPhone app, and I feel it's the easiest to use for standard operations. It's pretty much the same as the iPhone app, but the iPad lets you see more options/features at once.


    2. Performance: It takes a few seconds for it to register change events, but that's kind of expected, and it's really not that bad. Even when I'm far away and at work, I can change a setting via the web page, and it shows up on my phone in less than 10 seconds (or vice versa).


    3. Pool/spa lighting: The Colorlogics are pretty awesome for the most part; SUPER bright, nice rich colors and a lens that does a great job at diffusing light. They really light up every aspect of my pool and do not cause harsh shadows or dark spots because of the excellent diffusion of light due to the lens design. However, I have 2 issues with them; (1) The color "selection" is VERY limited... There are only 7 "light shows" and 10 "fixed" colors... WHAT?!!? These should be capable of at least 256 colors (standard RGB blending)!!! Also, you can't create/customize your own light show and delays... I can kinda understand that creating my own light show would be more development work and testing on their part, but seriously, having only 10 solid colors is a MAJOR cop-out! While the lights are on a "show" setting, they VERY SMOOTHLY and obviously cycle through WAY more than just 10 colors, so I know they are capable of more than that. I guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that they add more color and show options later. (2) And this is probably not the light's problem, but whenever you turn on a light show, it takes about 8 seconds or so for the light to "boot up". Not sure what is giong on, but the light will turn on/off and change color while you can hear the Omnilogic unit making loud relay clicking sounds. Kinda sounds like an REALLY old 70's pinball machine booting up, which is disappointing to hear in 2015...


    4. Wireless: I have had very minimal issues with my wireless bridge for my Omnilogic. My equipment is outside on the first floor just on the other side of my home's wall (kitchen). My wifi router (Airport Extreme 2013 model) is about 150ft away in an upstairs closet surrounded by metal shelving, and it shows it is receiving full signal strength. I only had a few days where it stopped working for some unknown reason (even though it was running perfect for months), but somehow the latest firmware update magically made it start working again. I'm pretty sure this was just a bug in their firmware, since I had to do various tricks through the config menu to get the SSID screen to allow me to type in more than 10 characters for my SSID. In any case, it's up and running again and haven't had a problem since.


    5. Service Mode: As the original poster stated, this is kind of a useless mode, but that doesn't bother me as it seems targeted for tech support or other pool professionals. The only reason you really ever need to go in there is to update your firmware.


    Closing remarks: It would be nice if the Omnilogic came standard with more than just 4 actuator valve plugs. I could really use one more actuator to really super automate the pool so I can control my hot tub spillover (have it turn it off when the in-floor turns on so it gets full water flow when it kicks on). I know there is an expansion board I can buy, but I don't want to pay that much extra ~$250 or so for just ONE actuator plug when I'm not going to use the other 3, nor the rest of the 8 other connections it comes with (4x temp sensors and 4x low voltage outputs). Overall though, I'm quite happy with the Omnilogic, and only have a few minor gripes. I'm definitely looking forward to future firmware updates, as just in the last couple of months it's already been getting much better!


    -cfg

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Config-

    I don't know if you already saw this in some of the other threads, but Hayward will apparently be coming out with a new add-on product that will allow the omnilogic to fully control ColorLogic lights (assuming they are the "networked" version). I think there's also some sort of coupler that needs to be added to the transformer when you do the upgrade. We're on the middle of a renovation project now and thinking about adding some ColorLogic lights while the interior is being redone, and I confirmed a couple days ago with Hayward that this is coming (soon?).



    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    What other threads talk about this add-on. I would like to read up on that. Haven't heard that yet

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    This one:

    Hooking up low voltage lighting to Omnilogic

    Basically, the omnilogic currently can turn on/off the colorlogic lights (like any other AC relay would), but Hayward will be coming out with an intelligent module that will allow full / ?seamless? control of any colorlogic lights (assuming they are the "networked" version). No additional wiring is needed (other than a piece that goes into the transformer). So if you're like me and need to add lighting now (since I'm renovating), then you might want to add the colorlogic networked lights, and this will allow you to eventually add the omnilogic control module and get the additional control capabilities.

    There's not too much info in the thread, but if you call Hayward they can probably answer any specific questions (they did for me).
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    I already have the color logic lights. Good info to know.

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Keep in mind that the Omni cannot control the CL 4.0 lights through any method other than the current relay chattering. With the new module it will be able to control the UCL lights but only the network version of those lights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also keep in mind that even when the new module does come out you will need a "coupler" that installs in your transformer. Only specific transformers are compatible with the coupler. Here is the manual for the coupler showing which transformers it is compatible with.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Sorry to drag up this older thread. I was researching the OmniLogic panel and was wondering if the firmware is any better now.
    TF-100 kit, SpeedStir, Sample Sizer. Still in early stages of pool planning

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Latest FW is still from 2015, take a look at their website for the main unit, hl-base.

    Imo as long as the app doesn't connect directly to the Omni (it goes to their cloud) it's going to be buggy.

    Even when the Omni is integrated with Control4 or other home automation system it still communicates via their cloud. Which is why it's so problematic. Their remotes aren't very ui friendly but are rock solid compared to the app.

    Pool: 16ftx32ft concrete built around 1960
    Filter: Hayward 24" Sand Filter S244TC | Pump: Hayward Super II
    To Be Added: T-CELL-15 | Omnilogic HL-BASE | Sense and Dispense HL-CHEM | pH Dispense Acid Feed AQL-CHEM4-120 | Tristar VS Pump | Raypak R266a | Color Logic 320 Lights | Dual Main Drains WG1153 with hydrostatic valve | Skimmer SP1070

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Latest firmware is still from last year however I updated to that latest version about a month ago. It did seem to make the system update its status to the app quicker than it did on the previous version.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    That's disappointing that they haven't fully fixed issues related to the panel, I'll keep looking at all options available.
    TF-100 kit, SpeedStir, Sample Sizer. Still in early stages of pool planning

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Is anyone connecting the OmniLogic to any sort of external automation system? I'm in the process of looking at some options for outdoor lighting, and I would like to coordinate it with the pool controls, but I don't think I want to use the Omnilogic interface itself to control the lighting (too many button presses, etc, to get the lights on/off). Basically I'd like to have something else as the primary controller for the lighting, but have the ability to talk back and forth between the 2 if that's possible.....
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Can you go with Pentair? The EasyTouch panel is rock-solid and the ScreenLogic systems connects to your wireless router so it's a direct connection....or at least that's I'm told...
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by:

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    the ScreenLogic systems connects to your wireless router so it's a direct connection....
    ...but I have my OmniLogic control panel connected directly to my router via wired ethernet (i.e. Cat5 connection), and don't have any connectivity issues myself.
    ~25000 gal IG gunite pool, built 2001 - renovated 2015
    Pebble Sheen Blue Surf + Shimmering Sea, Gemz, Classic Pool & Tile Rodio waterline
    Grey Granite Paver Deck, with TechoBloc Blu60 Smooth accent strip
    Hayward OmniLogic, UCL and CL320 LED lights, DE6020 filter, EcoStar pump, TF-100, T-15 SWG, Raypak P406A heater

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    Re: OmniLogic one-month review

    Quote Originally Posted by chinatti View Post
    Is anyone connecting the OmniLogic to any sort of external automation system? I'm in the process of looking at some options for outdoor lighting, and I would like to coordinate it with the pool controls, but I don't think I want to use the Omnilogic interface itself to control the lighting (too many button presses, etc, to get the lights on/off). Basically I'd like to have something else as the primary controller for the lighting, but have the ability to talk back and forth between the 2 if that's possible.....
    Take a look at my previous reply.

    We are an automation dealer in toronto canada for both crestron and Control4, both systems have a driver to let the omnilogic be controlled... However the issues with the automation systems are they lose connection to the cloud service used to control the omnilogic. Ie it's a bit unreliable.

    Unfortunately there isn't a direct connect driver for the Omni either. (although you can use the automation interface from the pro with the omni)

    Pool: 16ftx32ft concrete built around 1960
    Filter: Hayward 24" Sand Filter S244TC | Pump: Hayward Super II
    To Be Added: T-CELL-15 | Omnilogic HL-BASE | Sense and Dispense HL-CHEM | pH Dispense Acid Feed AQL-CHEM4-120 | Tristar VS Pump | Raypak R266a | Color Logic 320 Lights | Dual Main Drains WG1153 with hydrostatic valve | Skimmer SP1070

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