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Thread: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

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    Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    For back ground I rent out my home when not in residence and currently have guests staying. I'm 4500 miles away but my caretakers are on site.

    The caretaker has emailed and says the pool has a 'green tinge' is cloudy and recently reports the chlorine tabs are dissolving at a fast rate ( does not give actual numbers ).

    Since signing up to the forum I've read over and over the Pool School info and associated threads, but need advise please.

    The water results are (These are from the pool store, my TF kit on order don't know what caretakers have?):

    FC= 0
    TC= 0
    CH= 590
    CYA= 150
    TA= 120
    PH= 7.9
    Water = ' green tinge' and cloudy ( pic attached)
    Pool temp = 86 degrees

    Looks to me like everything is out of control, from my limited knowledge, my assumptions would be the CYA is well out and probably distorting some of the other results, this needing to be corrected first.

    CYA only being correctable by draining / refilling, correct??, problem is I have guests staying back to back now untill I come out in April.

    From Pool math ( I know this is only a guide):-

    I need to drain 67% to get to CYA 50. 'ouch' this should also bring CH down?

    Need 124 oz bleach to get to FC 4?? ( I assume at zero guests shouldn't be in the pool??)

    Is there a quick fix to make the pool safe /useable and look ok, until I get out to do a proper fix??

    Thanks in advance.
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    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Can your caretaker do a partial drain and refill for you to lower the cya? If not, you're gonna have to maintain that FC level between 12 and 15 or so at a minimum. Your CYA level could also be MUCH higher than the 150 the pool store results gave you. Your TA needs to drop about 40 points as well. PH is on the edge of the high side too. The "quickest" fix is to replace water and make everything more manageable.
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Yes if needed, but was wandering if there was a quick temporary fix to keep the pool useable by the guests? if not what do you recommend would be the minimum partial drain to get me back up and running?
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    If you already have algae growing, which seems very likely given your description and photo and test results, adding 4 ppm of chlorine isn't going to do anything. The algae will use it up quite quickly and be barely even slowed down.

    There are no quick fixes here. You either need truly extreme amounts of chlorine or you have to lower the CYA level first and then still large but at least plausible amounts of chlorine.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Ok, so will I need the 60% drain to lower the CYA? or would I get away with a partial of that for now? ( and the 60% or what ever if needed when I come out) if so what would you recommend as the way forward?
    Is it safe for the guests to be still using the pool??
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    NO!..It is NOT safe with zero FC and a possible algae bloom in progress as Jason suggested to you. The way forward is to temporarily close the pool, drain it down, refill it, and fix it.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Ok, spoke with the caretaker and fortunately the guests are out for the day at the parks. Will the pool water kill the grass if emptied on the landscaping? or is it best to put it straight to the drain? And I'll get the drain down in progress.
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Pool water is fine for grass.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Ok, Pump out in progress, we're going with a minimum of 2/3rds of the volume.

    I assume the best way forward from here is to:

    Refill, circulate, recheck chemistry, then re balance from there?
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    You need to refill, run a set of test, follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process to clear up the pool, and then a final balance.

    The SLAM process usually takes days to weeks ... not hours.
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Refill, circulate, test and SLAM the pool.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Unfortunately it does take some time making a pool safe after a bloom.
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    When you complete the SLAM process, what will the caretaker change so that this doesn't happen again??

    I know you are looking for quick fixes and shortcuts but understanding and managing the pool correctly (testing often) is the only way you can prevent this from happening over and over,

    I'm sorry to sound scolding but it is the truth. If you have time to keep reading here your eyes will be opened as to how to manage a pool.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    When you complete the SLAM process, what will the caretaker change so that this doesn't happen again??

    I know you are looking for quick fixes and shortcuts but understanding and managing the pool correctly (testing often) is the only way you can prevent this from happening over and over,

    I'm sorry to sound scolding but it is the truth. If you have time to keep reading here your eyes will be opened as to how to manage a pool.
    Exactly my own thoughts, what is he going to do differently, or what am I going to have him do differently, I think we will be having that discussion when I'm out at the house in a few months time. ( obviously it's apparent, since the chemistry was all to pot, that nowhere near enough testing was being done or insufficient actions were being taken or maybe I'm doing them an injustice and the pool was already on this road when we took it over?).

    With respect to short cuts and quick fixes, yes in this instance with guests at the house I was hoping for some to keep the pool in service. From here forward I'm not, as an Engineer I'm all to aware sticking plasters on never works long term, the only way to fix a problem is identify the root cause, fix and plan to not make the same mistakes again.

    This is the second pool guy I've had in the 3 yrs since owning the house, I previously had zero pool experience and expected these guys, since it's their job, to look after the pool, after all that's what I'm paying for.

    Since day one there have been a catalogue of problems with the pool every other month or so and I paid for fixes and upgrades as I knew no better, looking back now after reading on here and other sites, I've come to the conclusion that most were probably not problems with the pool/equipment/ or the use but symptoms of purely poor management-methods, attention to detail or even understanding by them.

    It's not through chance I ended up here @ TFP, I realised that if I didn't educate myself, then I probably would never get away from the 'Headaches/ sleepless nights thru worry' and to a lesser degree the expense. The frustrating thing is I'm a real hands on type of guy and I know that if the pool was outside my back door here with the information and support on the forum I'm sure I could keep the pool under control, unfortunately that's never going to be the case ( not in the short term anyway) so I'm going to have to find a way of managing from a distance.

    I appreciate all the advise and find it refreshing that you all not only find the time, but are prepared to pass on your knowledge and experience to educate and help others.

    Going forward, I really am open to advice, I'm reading old and new posts on here digesting the info and hopefully building up an understanding. Is there a standard sht/notepad available for recording daily/ weekly pool chemsitry?, I could have that completed and submitted with the monthly invoice ( no data, no payment). Then at least I would be aware of what's going on, all be it probably too late to react, I can't imagine I'll ever get it in real time?

    Would an SWG help, most people on here seem to rate them?, I know this would not negate the daily/ weekly checks, but would eliminate the long term use of chlorine pucks and associated issues?

    Sorry for the long post.
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary.B View Post
    Going forward, I really am open to advice, I'm reading old and new posts on here digesting the info and hopefully building up an understanding. Is there a standard sht/notepad available for recording daily/ weekly pool chemsitry?, I could have that completed and submitted with the monthly invoice ( no data, no payment). Then at least I would be aware of what's going on, all be it probably too late to react, I can't imagine I'll ever get it in real time?

    Would an SWG help, most people on here seem to rate them?, I know this would not negate the daily/ weekly checks, but would eliminate the long term use of chlorine pucks and associated issues?

    Sorry for the long post.
    Yes, a SWG will help - but it's not the cure all. Your problems stem from the fact that there is no one there who cares and loves the pool on a regular basis. A pool service is going to stop by once a week, fill a floater with tabs, maybe brush the sides, clean out the skimmer baskets and call it a day. Every tab that goes in the floater increases your CYA/Stabilizer level. The higher the CYA level the more chlorine you need for the same effective sanitizing/oxidizing.

    While they are helpful, reading old threads are not the best way to start. How much Pool School have you read? That is what you should be reading. Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool

    If you have read around here much you have probably seen that not much credence is given to pool store testing, and that includes most pool SERVICE testing.. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Yes, you live and learn, I think that's exactly the service I get.

    I've read the pool school stuff a number of times over the last few days, very enlightening, but will continue to read until it all becomes second nature. My TF-100 kit is on order and it will be interesting to see what the pool tests like when I get there.
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Are you done pumping and starting to refill now ??
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary.B View Post
    My TF-100 kit is on order and it will be interesting to see what the pool tests like when I get there.
    Great choice!!

    100 is the limit of the CYA test, so you will have to do a diluted test when you get your kit. While the full instructions are in the Pool School, here is the short version. Mix 50% pool water with 50% tap water. Use this mixed sample as your test water. If still at a 100 you will need to dilute more. Here is a great chart by JamesW to explain dilution rates and what you multiply the results by to get an approximation of your CYA level.

    Pool water......Tap or distilled water.........Multiply result by

    ....1...................1................................2
    ....1...................2................................3
    ....1...................4................................5
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Do you think your guests could/would test for you? If they are paying rent.............maybe give them a bit off if they will do the tests and upkeep OR it might be worth it to them to do it just to have a nice pool to enjoy.

    Call around to the pool services in your area. There MIGHT be one that understands the CYA/FC way of doing things.

    Here is one idea:

    -Pool service that knows about CYA/FC come in once a week to test and adjust as needed. (I also like your idea of no date no pay)

    -guests-add ?? amount of bleach a day.

    Of course this is after someone gets the pool balanced and clear.

    Good luck! I hope we can help you keep it from becoming a total swamp before you get home.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Pool cloudy and going green, help please.

    Decided to pump pool dry (as water had turned even more) and start from scratch, walls and floor brushed and rinsed out, all complete, now starting to refill.
    If I where there, then I probably would have acid washed pool as well to make it 'sparkly' clean. I'm sure there will be another opportunity in the future!

    Hopefully when I get over, the CYA should still be way down!
    12x30 12K gallon plaster/gunite pool- 2x deck streamers & 2x fan sprays, 6x4 1k gallon 4 jet spa. 1.5Hp pentair whisperflo pool/spa combi pump. Pentair clean & clear 100sqft cartridge filter, 400K Hayward NG Heater, Intermatic RC 2163FE Pool / Spa combi Analoguel Control. SGS 540 Breeze SWG. TF-100 with speedstir.

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