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Thread: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

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    Surf Hawk's Avatar
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    VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    I'm trying to take advantage of our power companies (SCE) $200 rebate on VS pumps by the end of the year as I will eventually go with a VS pump. Currently I have a 5 year old Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF) on 1.5" piping that consumes 1kW. I run about 4hrs in winter and 8hrs in summer. I have solar but I run it just a few weeks a year as I have a cover that keeps heat in pretty well. I've been keeping track of our power bills the last year, and if I can get out of Tier 2 ($.20/kwh that starts at ~300kwh) and Tier 3 ($.28/kwh that starts at ~375kwh), I can save $350/yr.

    Edit: 22,000 gallon pool, 1.5" piping, solar, 48sqft Hayward DE filter

    List of Hayward and Pentair rebate eligible pumps:

    Model Number Leslies Amazon HP
    Hayward - EcoStar SVRS Pump SP3400VSPVR $1599.99 $1,025.00 2
    Hayward - EcoStar Variable Speed Pump SP3400VSP $1299.99 $859.00 2
    Hayward - TriStar Variable Speed Pool Pump SP3200VSP $926.99 $789.00 2
    Hayward - Super Pump VS SP2602VSP $999.99
    Hayward - Super Pump VS SP2600VSP $799.99 $679.99 1.5
    Hayward - Max-Flo VS SP2302VSP $785.99 $875.00 1.5
    Pentair - Intelliflo VS Pump with Timer 11018 $1299.99 $962.95 3
    Pentair - Intelliflo SVRS Pump 11017 $1599.99 $1,088.99 3
    Pentair - IntelliFlo i1 VS Pump 11008 $1229.99 $962.95 1
    Is there any other info I should supply to help make a suggestion? Thanks in advance for any advice on offer.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Most of those rebates require that there be a controller that will turn the pump speed down to low if you forget to do so manually. If you don't already have an automation system, pumps like the Hayward - Super Pump VS have a large advantage since they already include a controller that will do that for you. On the other hand, if you do have an automation system, or just want more control over things, the Hayward - Super Pump VS is not a good choice since it always uses it's internal controller and does not play well with external controllers.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Does not look like you have a need for high flow rates, so I would suggest sticking with one of the smaller VS pumps. Note that these do require an external timer still and do not integrate into automation systems.

    The Max-flo is a little more efficient when you have a lower head loss system, it is also usually a little cheaper. Although with a solar system and small plumbing, the Super Pump might offer a little better flow rate.

    There is also a Pentair Superflo VS that I am surprised is not on the list.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Surf Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Thanks for the responses. Actually the Pentair Superflo VS is on the list, it just was not at Leslies so I neglected to post it, but I'm pretty sure I'll buy my pump at Amazon anyway (the Superflo VS is $729 at Amazon). I have attached the full list of Hayward and Pentair pumps, it is actually quite a few.

    I currently have a mechanical timer, I do not have a controller or any automation. The list of terms is here, I don't think I need install a controller to go along with it:
    1. Purchase a new variable-speed pool pump and motor between January 1, 2014 and December 31, 2014.
    2. Install the qualifying variable-speed pool pump and motor by February 28, 2015.
    3. Make sure the pool pumps appear on the list of qualifying products that can be found at www.sce.com/rebates.
    4. Variable-speed pool pump and motor must be installed in a pre-existing or new in-ground pool.
    5. The pool pump must be installed at a single family residence.
    6. Proof of purchase must be provided with your application.
    7. Limit: One variable-speed pool pump and motor rebate per Installation Address.

    Edit, wow that attached pic is tiny, here is a link to a list of pumps: https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect/...df?MOD=AJPERES




    pumps.jpg
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Looks like the Super Pump VS is the least expensive ... so I would probably go that route.
    Interesting that they do not seem to be as strict as some other rebates that require professional installation (who then also do not want to install an internet purchased pump).

    I do need to add though ... that VS will not integrate into a solar controller either. So there is no way for a solar controller to automatically switch to high speed if needed. If you manually are changing the valves to turn on the solar, then you can just also set the pump to a manually selected speed for solar and allow the pump to run its normal speed program when solar is not needed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Effective August 9, 2009, California Energy Commission's Title 20 Appliance Efficiency Standards, Section 1605.3 (g)(5) require residential single family pool pumps to be operated by a programmable controller capable of switching speeds automatically and defaulting to the low-speed setting after 24 hours if manual high-speed override is present.
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Hmm I wonder if that is for new pools only. For the Hayward SP2600VSP Super Pump VS, a review on Amazon says the "Default operation starts and runs at full speed for 12 hours and then switches to 1/2 speed until it is turned off." so that may may pass that law.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Right, that is what Jason said above that the internal timer would comply. You can set the speed it starts on and how long it stays there and then also set the speed it drops to where it will stay until the external timer turns off power. The 3rd speed (which you could use for solar and/or backwashing) can be set my you and is only manually selectable.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Thanks guys. Some really good threads on the SP2600VSP such as http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-be-programmed

    I'm going to focus in on that one and keep reading about it, including if it would drop in to my existing plumbing.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    I think the RS is dimensionally the same as the Super II (not sure about the Super). The RS is a Leslie's exclusive replacement.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Was double checking things last night, although the plumbing is really small to/from the pool (copper, looks 1.25" or 1.5", it is sized up to 2" when it comes and goes to the pump. So I will need a pump for 2" connections, right? I have never connected a pump, it looks like they have female threads on them, and then you screw in this black coupling that is PVCed to the 2" pipe. Will this pump still work in this instance?

    IMG_20141210_201018027.jpg
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    It is best to use 2" pipe at the equipment pad, but you can also use whatever size pipe connections the pump is setup for. That is usually 2", but some of the smaller pumps have 1 1/2" connections. Also, some pumps have half unions, as seen in your picture, while other pumps have threads that accept a threaded piece of pipe directly (without the black fitting seen in your picture). I think the SP2600VSP comes with 2" half unions, similar to your photo, but I am not certain.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    Mark
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    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    I did see that one. Jbizzle said above it is more efficient but the Super Pump might offer more for solar panels. They are within $50 of each other so whichever is the best fit for my pool I will get. I like the energy savings of the Max Flo but don't want to get the right one for my solar panels.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    The performance difference (head curves) isn't all that much.

    How high are your panels?

    What is your current clean filter pressure with solar engaged?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    My panels are on our single story roof, probably 10' at the bottom and 16' at the top. Is that a normal roof height?

    I've heard my filter pressure is high. Without solar and clean it is 20psi. I can't remember what happens with solar, but it is ~2psi different.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    16' is not a problem at all. Some are using that pump for a two story installs. I use a 1/2 HP pump for my two story install and the head curve of my pump is well below that of the MaxFlo. But this all assumes that you don't have any issues with your plumbing. 20 PSI for that plumbing is quite high and would indicate very high head loss in the plumbing.

    Can you post a picture of the entire pad equipment?

    Also, how many returns do you have in the pool?

    What size are the eyeballs (if you have them installed)?
    Mark
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    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    I don't have a pic of the full pad, I will take one tonight. The lines that go into the pad look real small, they are copper and looks smaller than 1.5" PVC.

    I have two returns, both without eyeballs, and the OD of a 3/4" PVC pipe will fit perfect in them, leading me to believe that is a serious constriction. One return is pretty close to the pad and the other is about as far away from the pad as you can get.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    It sounds like it is the piping that is causing the restriction but I just want to make sure that there isn't something on the pad too.

    But even with the restrictions, since the panels are on a one story roof, there shouldn't be an issue with either the SuperPump or MaxFlo VS. The SuperPump would produce only about 3 GPM more which won't make much of a difference.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: VS Pump Replacement Advice for SCE Rebate

    FYI:
    I just got a SuperPump VS(SP2600VSP) for $650 delivered, but note that it's considered a discontinued model.It's being replaced by the SP2602VSP which has more advanced timing control. It did not come with any unions, just the 1.5” ports.

    The 2602 does not need an external timer for start and stop control like the 2600 does.
    I already had an external timer for my old superpump so the 2600 is just fine for me. I see the 2602 costing around $150-$250 more and I'm told they're not available for shipment yet
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