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Thread: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

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    Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Welcome to TFP! I started a new Thread for your post. Please start a new Thread whenever you have a question or new topic as opposed to posting your question on an old Thread. Posting your question in a new Thread is more likely to get responses and gives your question the attention it deserves. --BoDarville, TFP Moderator

    This sounds like a great forum. We have been struggling with our pool this year with Leslie's Pool Supply - after dealing with algae issues and cloudy water we finally have a clear pool but we're going through chlorine like crazy and Leslie's has no answer for us. I hope you can help us. I ordered a test kit. Ironically I was testing daily and Leslie's talked me into making it easy by testing and adding chemicals 1-2 per week which is when our issues began. For now I am working on getting the chlorine level to where it should be (I finally got it up there last night and was almost out again today). When the kit arrives I will start with your program.

    Since I am new to this method should I start with testing the CYA? I can almost guarantee it will be high as we have been using chlorine with a conditioner in it and have not drained any water (other than normal evaporation) for some time as that adds metals to our pool and causes more chlorine burn up. Thanks!

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    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Welcome to TFP!

    Let me begin by making the following suggestions:

    1. Your climate is often important to the advice you receive. Your location is listed as Yucaipa. I'm assuming this is the one in CA on the west (windward) side of the San Bernardino mountains. The nearest large towns are San Bernardino and Riverside. This is on the west side of what I call "The Pass" on I-10 that separates the Pacific climate from the desert area to the east (I'm kinda' familiar with this area having made the LA to Palm Springs drive many times).
    2. Add some information about your pool to your signature. By doing this, it will automatically appear in all your posts so you do not have to re-enter it each time. If you have a SWG, please include those letters in your signature so it stands out as the advice for SWG vs. non-SWG is often different.

    Here's how to do both of the above: Adding location to your profile and pool info to your signature.

    Now on to your main question....
    When opening a pool or converting to our methods, we generally recommend first making sure pH is within the recommended range (7.2 - 7.8) followed by testing CYA and adding chlorine. Until your test kit arrives, we will not know the CYA level. That, combined with not knowing the water volume of your pool, makes it difficult to estimate the amount of chlorine needed to hold down the fort until your kit arrives. If you can add the pool information that I suggested to your signature, then we can give an estimate.

    In the meantime, I would suggest reading ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and familiarizing yourself with the Chlorine CYA Chart.
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Welcome to the forum.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Welcome!

    You start with a full set of test results. Check the Extended Test Kit Directions, so you see what to do if CYA or CH is beyond the normal test range.

    A partial drain will probably be necessary. How much depends on the results. In the meantime, check with the water company. Sometimes you can get relief from the tiered rates if it's for a pool fillup and they know in advance. Or you may find a drain is forbidden and you will end up getting fined and a restrictor slapped on your meter at your expense. Better to know in advance.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks for the warm welcome! BoDarville, you were right about my location! I just added more chlorine (granular from pool supply that contains CYA) as I am still unsure about how to use bleach but I will read up! As you can see from my signature my pool test kit should come in a week. I just read my ph based on your suggestion to deal with that before the CYA or chlorine and it is at about 7.0, so low. I will read up on PH to see how you deal with it on this forum and work on that. Do you suggest waiting 4 hours between chemicals? (That's what the pool supply recommended). Just curious since I just added chrlorine...thanks! I've got lots of reading to do! Richard 320 thanks for the suggestion - I'll look into this next week when I get the test kit!
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Half an hour is plenty.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks for clarifying your city/state and for adding information about your pool.

    Great first move on ordering a test kit. You are way ahead of most new members in recognizing the importance of pool water testing. BTW, if past experience is any indication, odds are your test kit will arrive before 7/28.

    To increase your pH, use washing soda or soda ash. Note that washing soda is different than baking soda. For now, I would add about 30 oz by volume of either product which will get you comfortably into the 7's.

    As for chlorine, I would discontinue using the powdered/stabilized form (it will keep increasing your CYA) and switch to bleach (plain, unscented, and without thickeners). Based on the fact that you have used the stabilized (conditioner) form of chlorine for some time without draining any water, you are correct in thinking that the CYA will be high. To add bleach to your pool, place the bottle or a measuring cup just above the surface of the water in front of a return jet and pour it slowly into the water with the pump running. Leave the pump on for about a half-hour after adding this, or any chemical, to the pool. Do you you still have your old test kit? If so, I would use that to estimate the amount of chlorine to add daily until your new test kit arrives. Based on your anticipated high CYA level, I would suggest aiming for a chlorine target of 7 parts-per-million (ppm) which will hold the fort until your test kit arrives. You can use the Pool Math tool to estimate the amount of chlorine you need to add based on your current test results and the interim target of 7 ppm. If you use PoolMath, be sure to input your pool water volume of 13,500 into the "Size" field at the top of the page before you input your test results.

    Once your new test kit arrives, run a full suite of tests and post them here. Then we can get down to business!
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thank you woodyp and bodarville! I found the washing soda - it has been added and I will add bleach shortly. The chlorine was only at 1ppm even after adding a shock level of granular chlorine 7 hours ago. I will test again tomorrow afternoon and see what's up.

    I'm learning - I read more of the links mentioned and understand why you want the chlorine to be so high - it's because the CYA is most likely 100+ - yeah - I love it when I learn something.
    Last edited by KASCPAMBA; 07-21-2014 at 11:39 PM. Reason: wrong chlorine level posted
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    You're a quick learner!
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    SWEET! A quick learner! Two most important steps already done! Finding TFP and ordering a good test kit!

    Wait until you see how much money and time you save with TFP! You are going to love it!

    We LOVE pics. Photobucket works good for me. Here is a link to some ways to do it:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...h-screenshots)

    Good luck and let us know how we can help you.

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks BoDarville and Kimkats. Got a package today and it wasn't my test kit . Oh well, I tested today and PH is still at 7 and chlorine down to .5. I guess I will use pool math to see what to add. I will see if I can put an image in later - I have tons of photos but am not familiar with flickr.

    What should my PH goal be? I noticed there's a range but the pool math only let's you input a single value. I realized what I purchased last night was actually borax (20 Mule Team), not washing soda, so I added the rest of the box (about 42 oz) as this appeared to be a minimal amount to add based on Pool Math.

    Another subject - running time for pool pumps. I was told by pool store to run 1 hour/day for every 10 degrees F of temperature, up to 8 hours a day during the summer, and to just run 2 hours a day during the winter. Any advice on that?
    Last edited by KASCPAMBA; 07-22-2014 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Add more info/questions.
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Quote Originally Posted by KASCPAMBA
    What should my PH goal be?
    I would aim for around 7.5.

    Quote Originally Posted by KASCPAMBA
    I tested today...and chlorine down to .5
    Add 1 bottle (121 oz) of plain liquid bleach (8.25% strength). This will get you close enough to 7 ppm FC while keeping the dosing amount simple. We will get more precise once your new test kit arrives.

    Quote Originally Posted by KASCPAMBA
    Another subject - running time for pool pumps. I was told by pool store to run 1 hour/day for every 10 degrees F of temperature, up to 8 hours a day during the summer, and to just run 2 hours a day during the winter. Any advice on that?
    I would suggest following the advice given in this article: Determining Pump Run Time. This is the process I followed and it allowed me to reduce the pump runtime dramatically while maintaining a crystal-clear pool.
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    A good test kit is an investment, not an expense.

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks BoDarville. I did add 121 oz of 8.25% bleach yesterday. Tested again today and PH is at 7.1 - chlorine at .5. Put 70 oz of borax in - almost one box - per pool math and ph goal of 7.5. I also need to put 132 oz. of 8.25% bleach in per pool math. Man - that's about $10 in chemicals for the day! I can't wait to get the test kit and hopefully get these issues under control. On the bright side, the pool is sparkling! I read the article on the pump - thanks. It looks like I need to get the pool under control first, but I will check into this more when that happens.

    UPDATE: 4 hours after adding chlorine I did a test just to see if something was happening before checking tomorrow afternoon - chlorine 1.5 and PH 7.2....both went up but not much! I guess I will stick with the once a day plan though for now unless someone suggests otherwise. At this rate I would need to add 5.5 more gallons of chlorine and 3 more boxes of borax to get where I want to be! My test kit left Greensboro, NC at 1:06 AM today.
    Last edited by KASCPAMBA; 07-23-2014 at 08:49 PM. Reason: Added update 4 hours later.
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Although there is always chlorine loss due to sunlight, if you are losing it at that rate there is likely something organic in the pool that is consuming it. Could be algae that hasn't gone into full bloom yet. Keep holding the fort down with daily chlorine additions until your kit arrives. Don't go too overboard in adding anything else in case you need to do a partial drain and refill - would hate to see that money go down the drain (literally).
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Regarding Borax, don't dump it all in at once. Work in small batches, test after 30 minutes, add some more, test again, and keep doing that until you reach your target. Other than chlorine, it's best to add all chemicals that way.
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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks BoDarville & R.J. So BoDarville - should I just skip the Borax until I get the test kit? And RJ - so if I am suggested to use say 70 oz of Borax - how much would I add at a time? (Just tested and PH remains at 7.2 - chlorine is gone - I will add bleach according to pool math).
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks BoDarville & R.J. So BoDarville - should I just skip the Borax until I get the test kit? And RJ - so if I am suggested to use say 70 oz of Borax - how much would I add at a time? (Just tested and PH remains at 7.2 - chlorine is gone - I will add bleach according to pool math).
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    I'd hold off on making any adjustments besides adding chlorine until you know exactly where you're at. Ph of 7.2 is fine, especially if you have high TA. What happens if you raise pH and three days from now, your pH is high and you need to add acid? What if it turns out you need a partial drain? You'll have poured stuff in the pool only to pump it out again.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Thanks Richard 320. I tested 45 minutes after adding the Chlorine today and it is at about 5 so it is temporarily at least getting up there.
    11,400 Gallons, IG Vinyl, Pentair 188592 Quad D.E. Cartridge Style D.E. Pool Filter 60 Square Foot 120 GPM, Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed High Performance Pool Pump 3 Horsepower 230 Volt, 1 Phase Energy Star Certified, replaced liner 8/2011, TF-100 Test Kit.
    ~Kellie

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    Re: Transitioning from Pool Store Method to TFPC - What Should I do First?

    Richard is right, wait until your test kit arrives before making any adjustments. If and when you do need to add borax, I would divide it in half, dissolve it in a bucket of pool water, then add it to the pool testing 30 minutes after each batch. The first batch might raise or lower more than you anticipated; if so, adjust the second batch accordingly.
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