poolneophyte i do agree with that as it seems to be way over my head anyhow, but I had to ask. NC is where pool is
Hotel Worker, curious about hotels indoor pool
- Thread starter FrontDeskClerk
- Start date
Poolneophyte , I think most of us agree that making specific chemical suggestions are not appropriate for a public pool where local (perhaps outdated) regulation likely limits available options, however I see nothing wrong with pointing out the problems with what appears to be at a minimum a very out of balance pool, and possibly a public health risk.
Ike
Ike
http://www.deh.enr.state.nc.us/images/r ... 18a.25.pdf
Here's a quick PDF I found in google, page 20ish starts the water guidelines. This is a start to getting them to clean up the pool. Can you see the main drain??
Here's a quick PDF I found in google, page 20ish starts the water guidelines. This is a start to getting them to clean up the pool. Can you see the main drain??
Beat me to it, I found the same one, reading through it, it isn't to bad, CYA is allowed but cannot exceed 100ppm, FC needs to be maintained above 1 ppm (for chlorine pools, you're already failing that one). Nothing in there about salt systems unless "NSF/ANSI Standard number 50" covers SWG's as an automatic chlorine feeder system which is required for chlorine pools.
Poolneophyte, While I agree that the requirements for the chemistry for a public pool to be open may be different than the levels we recommended for our private pools, the chemicals and chemistry are all the same. What will work to clear and maintain our pools will work to clear and maintain the public pools ... but the regulations need to be kept in mind.
No one has yet told FDC to do anything that would violate any regulations from what I have seen. We have just been gathering information and trying to determine what those regulations are so as to develop a possible path forward.
No one has yet told FDC to do anything that would violate any regulations from what I have seen. We have just been gathering information and trying to determine what those regulations are so as to develop a possible path forward.
Well, based on the pdf posted by leebo, we know what the requirements are and nothing in there contradicts what is recommended here. Some of the minimums are way below what we would recommend, but there are no maximums that we wouldn't also agree with (like metals, and allowing CYA up to 100ppm without a corresponding minimum FC floor)
I agree that the TFP methods can work with any pool but we must be very careful making recommendations for pools accessible to the public. What really concerned me was the pool log showing six days with zero chlorine residual at 80 degrees F. That's not a pool, it's a giant petri dish. I just don't want anyone getting sick.
I don't remember anyone making any recommendations yet except "that pool is nasty, shut it down and get it clean" 
Most here, myself included, have recommended reviewing the regulations for NC before making any recommendations. Leebo posted a link to the regulations, I have read them, and discovered that if an inspector came by for the annual inspection, the pool would be shut down.
Among the violations are:
using a product containing CYA but not testing weekly for CYA to ensure it doesn't exceed 100ppm
not maintaining an FC above 1ppm at all times.
I doubt if the main drain can be seen based on the pics posted.
There is also nothing in the regulations that prohibit what we would recommend to fix the pool.
SWG's are a bit of a grey area in the codes, chlorine and bromine pools are required to use an injection system (not gas which is prohibited), they refer to NSF/ANSI Standard 50 – Equipment for Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, and Other Recreational Water Facilities (2011) for injection systems, but I can't find any mention of SWG's on their page, and I'm not about to order their entire publication.
Most here, myself included, have recommended reviewing the regulations for NC before making any recommendations. Leebo posted a link to the regulations, I have read them, and discovered that if an inspector came by for the annual inspection, the pool would be shut down. Among the violations are:
using a product containing CYA but not testing weekly for CYA to ensure it doesn't exceed 100ppm
not maintaining an FC above 1ppm at all times.
I doubt if the main drain can be seen based on the pics posted.
There is also nothing in the regulations that prohibit what we would recommend to fix the pool.
SWG's are a bit of a grey area in the codes, chlorine and bromine pools are required to use an injection system (not gas which is prohibited), they refer to NSF/ANSI Standard 50 – Equipment for Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, and Other Recreational Water Facilities (2011) for injection systems, but I can't find any mention of SWG's on their page, and I'm not about to order their entire publication.
Contact your local inspector to make 100% sure there are no other codes to follow.
I must say, these are the most lax codes I've seen. Not even a mention of a FAS/DPD kit.
I must say, these are the most lax codes I've seen. Not even a mention of a FAS/DPD kit.
Agreed, poolneophyte. I posted that bit just as a reminder to less experienced people who are probably watching this thread.
Thank you Leebo, for finding that reference. Most helpful.
Yes, FDC, that pool IS a health hazard, and by the rules, must be closed until it can be cleaned.
Suggestions:
1. Talk to your GM, and ask for permission to be the primary pool care person.
2. Bring that pdf to your GM's attention. Make sure he realizes that an inspection could cost him $$, more than just the clean-up costs.
3. If he agrees to make you the primary, help him to understand that it may take several weeks to clean the mess.
4. Check with local pool stores and see if they know about any Certified Pool Operator courses are available in your area. Check also with your city/county health departments for the same. As you have a commercial/public pool, I believe it to be a requirement that you be certified. -- side note: find out if the others working with the pool have that certification. Somehow I doubt they do.
Once these are done, we will help you get that pool swimmable.
Thank you Leebo, for finding that reference. Most helpful.
Yes, FDC, that pool IS a health hazard, and by the rules, must be closed until it can be cleaned.
Suggestions:
1. Talk to your GM, and ask for permission to be the primary pool care person.
2. Bring that pdf to your GM's attention. Make sure he realizes that an inspection could cost him $$, more than just the clean-up costs.
3. If he agrees to make you the primary, help him to understand that it may take several weeks to clean the mess.
4. Check with local pool stores and see if they know about any Certified Pool Operator courses are available in your area. Check also with your city/county health departments for the same. As you have a commercial/public pool, I believe it to be a requirement that you be certified. -- side note: find out if the others working with the pool have that certification. Somehow I doubt they do.
Once these are done, we will help you get that pool swimmable.
I don't want to ask this, but is anybody actually swimming in it? Please tell me nobody is actually swimming in it...
Donldson said:
I missed reading the entire thread. I thought this pool was closed!!
Close the doors. If you are inspected the license will be suspended quickly.
At the top of page 21, the requirement is there that all persons with the responsibility of the pool be certified.
So if you want this job, FDC, you will need to become certified. Do check that the others currently operating are certified.
So if you want this job, FDC, you will need to become certified. Do check that the others currently operating are certified.
Don't think you need to be certified before you bring this to the attention of management. If you come to them with the problem and solution they may be willing to pay for you to get the certifications needed.
Charlie_R said:
Actually, the way that thing reads, certification is not necessary, just that it will be accepted in lieu of documentation stating the person has been trained in the required subjects. Nice loophole for businesses.
You should be fluent in the following subjects according to the requirements.
Pool Water Chemistry --- You can learn most of this in pool school. If you go to a pool store sponsered course, you'll probably learn stuff that is designed to sell chemicals.
Pool Equipment Operation --- You'll probably learn more here than anywhere else, but the hotel should have a training plan for their equipment.
Regulatory requirements --- most everything you need to know is in the pdf that Leebo linked.
Disease and Injury prevention --- no idea who teaches something like this, but knowing how to keep a clean pool and being familiar with the safety requirements surrounding pools and your local regulatory requirements will probably be helpful. Mostly this is common sense.
You are correct, PridgNYC. All it says is that the owner must maintain documentation. I misread it.
It is obvious that the person operating the pool does NOT fit those requirements, just by looking at the log and condition of the pool.
The demerit system outlined on page 3 would call for an immediate shut-down just on the first 3 items.
I find it so sad that a hotel pool could get in that bad of condition, and the operator continues to let it stay that way.
It is obvious that the person operating the pool does NOT fit those requirements, just by looking at the log and condition of the pool.
The demerit system outlined on page 3 would call for an immediate shut-down just on the first 3 items.
I find it so sad that a hotel pool could get in that bad of condition, and the operator continues to let it stay that way.
FrontDeskClerk said:
It would be better if you learned the subjects required so you can answer this question yourself. Pool school has enough info for water chemistry and equipment understanding. The SLAM process will be required to clean the pool unless a complete drain is an option.
The pdf linked for your state regulatory requirements are important to know when talking to your management. You need to put together a plan that shows that you know what you are talking about as far as getting that pool into shape.
Given that, you also need to know whose toes you are stepping on by doing this. (politics s**k, but they are a fact of life in business) Who currently takes care of the pool, and why have they let it get to the state it is currently in? (not looking for names, purely rhetorical) Who may lose their job over this? You can potentially gain by doing this, but keep in mind who could be hurt. You might be better off suggesting a new supervisory role for yourself so you don't displace anyone.
Disgusting.
And I'm willing to bet there are still people using it. A few years back, I stayed at a hotel with a similar cesspool. People were in the water while just feet away in the spillover spa, were huge - I'm talking a foot high - piles of scuzzy foam on the spa. I saw a woman doing her water aerobics, walking back and forth, and her feet disappeared.
Just call the health department. And look for a labor lawyer...you could be looking at a sizeable payoff under whistleblower protection laws.
And I'm willing to bet there are still people using it. A few years back, I stayed at a hotel with a similar cesspool. People were in the water while just feet away in the spillover spa, were huge - I'm talking a foot high - piles of scuzzy foam on the spa. I saw a woman doing her water aerobics, walking back and forth, and her feet disappeared.
Just call the health department. And look for a labor lawyer...you could be looking at a sizeable payoff under whistleblower protection laws.