OKC renovation - forty-year facelift

I went to run some errands and came back to this about three hours later!












In the time I've taken to type and upload this, there is even more progress. I think this is the "hurry up and wait" time, because after today they will be off for the holiday and then the weekend.
 
Re: OKC renovation started 11.27.13

Very nice. Too bad you can't easily resurrect the hot tub. The kiddos and I have been playing in ours almost every night. So fun to warm it to about 97-98 and hang out while its in the 30s. An in-ground, matching hot tub would be icing on the cake!
 
Re: OKC renovation started 11.27.13

bzeller - That sounds heavenly! I was really torn about the decision to ditch the hot tub. One of the major cons - in addition to the hefty costs to rehab it - was that the hot tub's location was not ideal. It was right alongside the main traffic path in and out of the backyard and it created a "pinch point" between the corner of the pool and the hot tub so the traffic path was pretty narrow to navigate around the pool and back to the increased deck space we wanted to have to entertain our large extended family. It also had a sloped deck to drain water from it and that was a PITA to work around: the whole area rose up out of the ground a little like a mini-volcano, and putting pots of plants along one side to help obscure it from the adjacent driveway meant the pots tilted at a crazy angle and looked weird (I solved that with pot saucers filled with gravel to level the pots). The pros for keeping it were that we just paid $1500 to have a new gas line run to the hot tub heater, and the pumps had both had new motors installed last year and they never even got to run. Ugh!

We do have a Jacuzzi tub inside that I use frequently in the winter time, so I do think I would enjoy a hot tub if we had one working. In the case of rehabbing a really bad condition hot tub at a cost of $6-7K, our PB advised us to just get the portable ones that can be serviced more easily and located pretty much wherever we want. Eventually, we may add a portable one in a less conspicuous place in the pool area, and perhaps build it in with a bluestone facing to match our retaining wall or something.
 
Re: OKC renovation started 11.27.13

Yeah, I looked into a portable one as well. There are definitely pros and cons there. The portable ones have a million jets which make them nice for true therapy, but they're not exactly cheap. I tend to err on the side of quality because I want to buy and be done, so one of the nicer brands such as Dimension One or Hot Spring in any decent size (say 5-6 people) will run you easily $8 - $9K new. Then there is the issue of it not looking "built in". I don't necessarily disagree with your reasoning, but that $6 - 7K rehab will probably be cheaper than a quality portable spa, look brand new, match the pool completely, and be made out of solid concrete rather than a portable spa. I would also argue maintaining the built in is easier since in theory it could be tied to your pool chemistry instead of maintaining the pool and then a separate spa.

Anyway, sounds like you've thought it through and if the location is bad that's something to take into consideration. Good luck, can't wait to see it all!
 
Re: OKC renovation started 11.27.13

Today was sandblasting. Although I was assured by PB the sandblasters would take plaster down to the gunite (in lieu of full chip out), that does not appear to be the case. Looks like it was chip-out around returns and lights and a few soft/corroded/cracked spots in gunite, with sandblast mostly just taking off the paint in other places. Shouldn't sandblast go down to gunite for best adhesion of new plaster layer? Better pics tomorrow, it was dark when I got home tonight. Look like return pipes have been broken off. Seems strange not to salvage the threaded PVC for the return eyeballs, except we are changing to gray so maybe they thought breaking pipes off would work better.



Also, the Sat after Thanksgiving the demo crew showed for a few hours to work on the retaining wall. Turns out it was a concrete wall with a big footing faced with the rocks, so it's taking a lot of work to take it out. It was much sturdier inside than it appeared from corroded outside. DH and I planted all the salvaged landscape along our fenceline on Sunday, including a half-dozen evergreens (green spire euonymous) and crape myrtle and irises, etc.
 
Re: OKC renovation started 11.27.13

Plaster question and I need your help! They came to sandblast last week. I specifically talked to our PB in depth about the process of a chip out vs. sandblast, because of info I have read that when resurfacing "you're only as good as your base coat." I never found a definitive answer to the "right" way to do it. To me, it seems that going all the way to the gunite ensures the best resurfacing possible, with the most longevity and highest quality, and will set us up the best for the future (and future replasterings) because we plan to live in this house a long time. He told me they sandblast all the way to the gunite, and we had it written into our contract. However, after the sandblasters left, I came home to find it looks like they did a chip out around the lights and returns and chipped out the lane and depth rope anchors, but there is still an inch or so of plaster left all over - that is if the plaster is the white stuff and the dark gray stuff is the gunite. In some areas there is even still a little bit of pool paint left. There is a crack that needs to be repaired as well, and I think more of it needs to be exposed for the proper assessment and repair. What do you think? Does the crew need to come back to keep going down to the gunite?











 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

Any opinions about plaster? With warmer temps this week, I'm hoping PB will be back on the scene. It's been about two weeks since anyone has been back there working, what with weather delays and all.
 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

MiaOKC said:
Any opinions about plaster? With warmer temps this week, I'm hoping PB will be back on the scene. It's been about two weeks since anyone has been back there working, what with weather delays and all.

As to what specifically? I mentioned my thoughts earlier in the thread Plaster verus Quartz. You decided on regular plaster right? Are they close to refinishing already?
 
Re: OKC renovation started 11.27.13

Thanks, Brushpup! My question is about surface prep for the new plaster...

MiaOKC said:
Plaster question and I need your help! They came to sandblast last week. I specifically talked to our PB in depth about the process of a chip out vs. sandblast, because of info I have read that when resurfacing "you're only as good as your base coat." I never found a definitive answer to the "right" way to do it. To me, it seems that going all the way to the gunite ensures the best resurfacing possible, with the most longevity and highest quality, and will set us up the best for the future (and future replasterings) because we plan to live in this house a long time. He told me they sandblast all the way to the gunite, and we had it written into our contract. However, after the sandblasters left, I came home to find it looks like they did a chip out around the lights and returns and chipped out the lane and depth rope anchors, but there is still an inch or so of plaster left all over - that is if the plaster is the white stuff and the dark gray stuff is the gunite. In some areas there is even still a little bit of pool paint left. There is a crack that needs to be repaired as well, and I think more of it needs to be exposed for the proper assessment and repair. What do you think? Does the crew need to come back to keep going down to the gunite?
 

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Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

In addition to the question about plaster surface prep, it's time to make a tile decision. My goal is to have the water color appear to run all the way up to the coping, as I think it results in a look like the pool is almost full up to the top, which I like. Here are the tiles I'm considering right now ... the middle is our plaster color (medium gray), the bottom two are a few of the colors that will appear in the hand-tinted stamped concrete deck and coping, and the tiles are all NPT. I want a glossy finish tile because I think it will be easier to keep clean.

Upper tile is Carrera Imperial Blue (which I think is limited quantity), right is Aquarius Moorea Lapis Blue, and bottom is Geosheen Geoblue Blue. I'm trying to find pics of these tiles installed but it is difficult. My current thinking is although I love the upper tile and think it is the prettiest on its own, it will be more obvious and not blend with the plaster/water color like I want. I think the right might be too purple/violet, so am leaning towards the bottom. Opinions welcome!

 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

Mia - wow beautiful tiles! They are all so pretty on their own! Look back at some photos of pools that you liked and see what it was that drew you to that particular pool - was it the seamless coping to water look? Or was the tile being a focal point more what you liked? I had saved a lot of photos and went back and kind of analyzed each one - did I choose it because of the shape, the finish, the coping. The thing I liked most was more of a seamless transition from the coping to the water, so I chose a tile that was close to the coping color/texture. I'm hoping it was the right choice!
 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

Our pool has the same color plaster you will have. I looked at your tile versus my pictures of our pool, some in my thread and some otherwise. If I had to choose based on what your intention is, I'd pick the first one. I really do believe it will blend in the best with all the different looks your pool will project in different lights. That and you like it best in its own right.

The gray plaster does project a rich/deep blue, however, there are also the reflections to be considered which are white/silver/gray. Also, on cloudy days, the pool will look much more gray. My vote is for Tile #1. Don't sue me though if it doesn't play out if you go that route!

On your plaster issue, I'm sorry that you haven't received an overwhelming stream of replies from those more educated than me. My feeling is that you should get what you had in writing - a pool taken down to its shell, with no plaster remaining. I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about the surface you now have being the best it could be for new plaster to adhere to. If memory serves, I've seen many replaster jobs here that were full chip-out jobs and that felt right to me.

Here's a picture of a cloudy day, notice too the difference with a sky background versus a planted background.
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Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

I'm not sure what the right answer is, and there are probably differing opinions among builders on going to gunite. I know Robbie H in DFW just had his done, and they left everything that was still adhering to the gunite. As I recall anyway, they only knocked it off where it was delaminated and they have a very good reputation for quality. I would sure wonder about that crack and think it should be addressed.

I like the top tile too and we are just starting to look at some. We want to blend with the deck/coping. One thing we found was several samples having a notation attached on a decal that says "wide shade variation." There are three pieces of the same sample name, and two of those don't look near enough like the one we really like. Frustrating to say the least, so we don't know where this will end up. All samples we have are also from NPT. One thing we do know is we don't want a stark contrast between deck/coping and finish. Enjoying seeing the progress of your Reno'. Keep it coming!
 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

PB says that plaster remaining will have good adhesion and grip for new plaster. They will acid wash and bond coat prior to new plaster. I know this isn't what we talked about or wrote into the contract, but since there is no good consensus on the right way to do it for me to use as backup to my position, I feel like I cannot push really hard to get it down to the gunite. He says the cracks will be ground out and epoxied prior to the plaster job, too, for proper prep.

Progress update for this week ... no work on Monday (and it was beautiful, in the 70s! had a few words with PB about that) but there has been some progress Tuesday-Friday. We have had an ice storm last night so once it clears a little I will need to go out to get pics - right now there isn't a whole lot to look at, but for the purposes of a full documentation, you'll get to see some exciting trenches for electrical cables. Wheeee!

Tues/Wed - Jackhammered/clawed the rest of the retaining wall out. It was constructed of rock facing on a gunite wall - unusual for a retaining wall but evidently they shot it at the same time as the pool was originally done. That meant it was harder than heck and took a long time to get out. They smoothed the humps of dirt around the pool, so it is easier (albeit muddy) to walk around the backyard. It seems so spacious at the back side of the pool to be able to walk a full circuit of the pool! They hauled a bunch of the remaining rubble away - scraping the driveway with their dump trailer (which is on a good slope) but that's the way it goes. Turns out a pool reno is just as hard on your yard as a new build. Have had several collateral things damaged due to the nature of heavy machinery. They also jackhammered out the skimmers from the pool wall. Turns out the plumbing lines are run within the shell of the pool - I think that is an old way of doing things but there we are. PB says it's good as it means the solid surroundings to keep plumbing intact and hopefully leak-free. We'll see on the pressure test!

Thurs/Fri - digging trenches for electrical runs for pool lights, plus new run for the long length of wires they accidentally pulled out of the ground with the claw. We had a run going from the panel out by the back fence and equipment through the deck area to the wall switch outside and a wall switch inside, where we had switches to control the hot tub motors and pool lights. This run was just barely below the concrete and encased in a pvc pipe and it got accidentally ripped up first day of demo. That also pulled all the circuit breakers out of the electrical panel. PB will pay to have the run redone since his guys tore it up, and either pay to have the circuits reinstalled or we can pay to have the panel upgraded to a new one, since it is pretty old. As far as I know, it was working fine (the lights in the pool didn't work but I think that was not at the panel level) but the panel cover hinges were bent and hard to keep the panel covered tightly. We might want some plugs installed back there (should have room on the panel because the hot tub power for two motors and blower and light are not needed anymore) but I don't know that we need a whole new panel. PB says that it's up to us, "but you know, it was old and could fail at any time." I'm not so sure about that but we will see what the bid is to do the new panel. I'm hoping to add some landscape spotlights at the base of the bamboo, so will need a plug for the transformer for that. Also hope to relocate our robot to live back at the equipment pad instead of on our back porch, so will need a plug for that, too (as well as a little shelter for it).

I believe they set the new (dark colored to match our plaster, either gray or black, I cannot tell) skimmers in place but don't think they are plumbed yet. It's supposed to warm up tomorrow I think so I will go out and look. The skimmers are being set back outside the pool shell and will look different than the others we had, which were flush-front with the pool wall/tile. Our old skimmers were also not level with each other, which was really annoying as the more visible one always looked like the water level was good but the other one might be really low. That's supposed to be fixed, too.

In other news, PB says he's ready to put the tile on next week if I can figure out which ones I want! I've been to several places and have about 8-10 samples. There are few showrooms in OKC, many are in Dallas, so we have to have samples shipped which slows us down. Current thinking is a color that is almost the same gray as the plaster color will help with that seamless look I want., so am on the hunt for the right color. Complicating matters is that I am looking for a non-textured, glossy surface, as I'm hoping that will help us keep the tiles clean, or more easily cleaned, from any scaling (which I'm afraid we will encounter as the new plaster cures). Decisions, decisions!





 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

Also, bmoreswim, thanks for the additional pic of your pool illustrating the difference. That's similar to what the guy at the MasterTile showroom here told me - yes the water will appear deep blue in the deep areas, but at the surface, where the waterline is, it will appear to be clear. So if I want seamless, I match the plaster color rather than the color the water appears to be, if that makes sense.

Brushpup - I asked about the shade variations when at the showroom, too. He suggested that even if we are looking for a 6x6 tile, we could look at the 2x2 mosaic of the same series/color to get an idea of the variations. That might help!
 
Re: OKC renovation - need replaster advice!

I'm still wrestling with the tile decision. If you can believe it, I've circled back around to the very first tile sample I got (since my other fave is discontinued). Am going to ask PB for more samples from this series, as taking the tile showroom's advice and looking at the 2x2 mosaic sample doesn't look anything like the 6x6 sample I got. With the wide shade variation tiles, I think you need to see more tiles to make a good informed decision. We want to choose a tile we love on its own, since there is no guarantee it will match either the coping or the plaster or the water color (our preference, and the most difficult and esoteric thing to try to match of course!), so we better love it for itself and it will be a bonus if it matches like we want. This is the current contender (in my photo above with the plaster and concrete samples, it is the one on the right. I don't think I would have ever guessed they are the same).

 

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