6 of one dozen, half dozen of the other... pebble surfaces

[bbrock]

Hi TFPers,
I am still underway in our resurfacing research. This has become a serious headache/journey b/c I have gone back and forth from white plaster, white quartz, pebble surface (either Stonescapes - National Pool Tile product, Pebble, Wet Edge, or Adams Pool Solutions Pebble Plus), to Wet Edge Primera Stone. We have all stated we want a smooth surface but now I am back leaning towards some sort of aggregate pebble surface due to the durability, longevity, and improved chemical resistance vs. plaster. I know I have been upsold and given the sales pitch by multiple different pool contractors and the 2 main pool companies (Burkett's and Adams) out here in the Tri-Valley. When I say upsold, I refer to the fact that they try to tell me I should do the tile now, and that I should consider saw cutting my deck and installing coping b/c of a small crack on the face of my aggregate cantilever deck.

Here are my question(s):
1. If I only choose to resurface now and go with an aggegrate (some sort of mini pebble by one of the aforementioned companies), I have been told that I can re-tile later b/c an aggregate surface/pool will be okay empty for the amount of time it takes to re-tile. Is that correct?
a. The thing that concerns me with this proposition is that even though the aggregate may be able to take being empty, what about the matrix that the aggregate is suspended in? Won't that be adversely affected?

2. Adams Pebble Plus is a generic Pebble Tec product. Adams Pool Solutions in Pleasanton, but I think the parent company is in Sacramento, is a certified Pebble installer. They have their own line of aggregate which is the Pebble Plus. It is available as a mini-pebble, akin to Wet Edge Satin Matrix or Pebble Sheen. But, they have a super mini pebble version of their Pebble Plus and it uses very small pebbles. The super-mini version is quite nice. I can't imagine it being too rough on the feet, etc., since the pebbles are "super mini." But, even though it is installed by the same applicators who are certified Pebble installers, the warranty on the Adams Pool Solutions Pebble Plus is only 5 years. It is a slightly shorter warranty, but it is less expensive. That is where I feel that rock is rock. Perhaps they all buy from the same rock warehouses and just put their different names on it. How different is one rock product from another companies rock product? Therefore to me, it comes down to the installation. Is it worth it to go with a generic product, even if it is installed by the same certified applicators as the name brand Pebble product, if it comes with a shorter warranty period?

Here are pic(s) of my current tile/cantilever deck:

 

[bbrock]

I did just find this from NPT regarding leaving a pool dry. Anyone know if this would pertain to an aggregate pool as well? Doesn't the matrix around/holding the aggregate together still have some Portland cement in it?

FAQ | National Pool Tile Group
How long can my pool finish sit completely dry?
Pool finishes are typically made utilizing white Portland cement. White Portland cement is a hydraulic cement which means that it sets and hardens once water is added to it. Pool Finishes are also referred to as "ponding or immersion cured" products, meaning that they are designed to be cured under water. Allowing any pool finish to set dry any longer than necessary is highly unadvisable. A pool finish can be compromised in as quickly as 24 hours given the local environment on a given day.

Delamination, bond failure, craze cracking and structural cracking are all common events that occur when pools are left dry too long.

 

[pooldv]

Yes, pebble/aggregate pools should be treated the same as a plaster pool.

 

[bbrock]

Tx pooldv.

What’s the brushing protocol for a new aggregate surface? I have a nylon bristle brush w/ a wall whale attachment. How sensitive is the new aggregate to damage from being scraped with the plastic/metal trim on a brush, or my pool net? I read it can be gouged easy; I can’t imagine it being so delicate.

How long do I keep out Ghostlight (Maytronics S200)?

If I leave out Ghostlight, do I have to vacuum otherwise? Or, can I leave whatever debris falls to the bottom for the amount of time Ghostlight will be out? I didn’t want to have to buy everything to manually vacuum since it would only be used for the interim. Can I just clean and net the bottom using my pool net, or as I asked could that inadvertently damage the finish?

 

[shingles]

You'll want to check the particular company's start up process. Wet Edge says to start brushing day one. No wheeled vacuum or robots for a little while. You can vacuum, but with vinyl head vacuum only. I didn't drop my robot in until 30+ days out. The PB didn't vacuum until 2+ weeks in after the pool was filled with water.

Here's Wet Edge's document.
http://wetedgetechnologies.com/files/28_Start_Up_Instructions.pdf

 

[bbrock]

Come to learn the answers to my questions.

1. I spoke with Lora Sharp at Wet Edge. Using their product as an example, she stated that a surface cannot be empty for greater than 48 hrs b/c it will void the warranty. Thus, I will have to extrapolate that 48 hrs should be the limit if an aggregate is to be dry.

2. It is not worth it to go with a generic product to save a little here. The generic Adam's Pool Solutions product has a shorter warranty (5 years if I go through this one pool contractor, or 10 years if I go through Adam's directly) and it is colored with organic and inorganic pigments. From learning more about the pigments (thank you Onbalance), it is recommended and ideal to go with a product that uses mineral/inorganic pigments b/c they retain their color. Wet Edge use mineral/inorganic pigments, which will provide resistance to fading. Not to mention, Wet Edge provides a 15 year warranty on the Satin Matrix or Primera Stone.

Thus, it appears you get what you pay for.

A couple of links for reference:
FAQ
Pigments and Pools | Pools/Spas | Watershapes

 

[bbrock]

I am leaning towards using Wet Edge Primera Stone, despite a cost analysis breakdown I did in another post comparing it against plaster. I like the idea of a one time finish, so to speak. More environmentally friendly as well due in part to the fact less resources would need to keep being produced and used for subsequent resurfaces vs. manpower due to the polishing of the Primera Stone.

However, I do believe that it is a softer material (lower in the hardness scale) vs. Wet Edge's aggregate such as Satin, Pearl, or their new Signature (a combination of the two). I guess that softness is related to the fact that it has some marble so that it can be sanded/polished smooth. But it is that marble and softness that has me concerned that it can/will stain easier than their aggregate (Satin, Pearl, Signature). Regardless of the fact that it can be polished again and again, I don't want to buy an $ high end pseudo plaster only for it to stain. Here is some of what I read at a FAQ on Wet Edge:

True, some of the pebbles in the Primera Stone™ are not as hard as those in the Pearl Matrix™ and Satin Matrix™ but they are still quite resilient, due to their quartz content. It would take an extreme case of neglect and aggressive chemicals to breakdown these pebbles. Primera Stone™ pools that do show signs of scaling or staining due to bad water chemistry or gross lack of attention can be re-polished. This is another beautiful aspect to the Primera Stone™ pool finish. Primera Stone™ pools can be re-polished periodically over and over again for many years and can look can look even better than a new finish.
FAQ

Opinions? Could it still be worth the premium to go with Primera Stone if it is more susceptible to staining vs. their aggregate?