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Thread: Possible suction side air leak?

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    Possible suction side air leak?

    Tiny bubbles are coming out of the returns. Is this normal for a SWG?

    Here is a video

    http://youtu.be/StQ7TUk6o2o
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Turn the SWG off and see if it stops.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    How long after turning the SWG off should it take if it is the SWG to stop shooting out bubbles?
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    How long after turning the SWG off should it take if it is the SWG to stop shooting out bubbles?
    I would imagine no more than a minute. How far is it from the SWG to the return?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Could this be the culprit?

    http://youtu.be/WOuh0xKjgLs

    Also this is after SWG is off for 2-3 minutes.

    http://youtu.be/bWlaOvMqH1k
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    How long after turning the SWG off should it take if it is the SWG to stop shooting out bubbles?
    I would imagine no more than a minute. How far is it from the SWG to the return?
    The closest one is about 20 feet. Farthest one is
    About 50 feet.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Strainer basket seal is one of the most common sources of suction side leaks. It sure looks like it in the first video. What was I supposed to see in the second?

    I'll copy some of what I posted just a day or two ago, because it's relevant


    [center:2snl290q]Round up the usual suspects: low water level, stuck weir in the skimmer, loose drain plugs on the
    pump, poor seal on the pump strainer basket, and leaks at the fittings, especially any couplings.
    [youtube:2snl290q]vtSmfws0_To[/youtube:2snl290q][/center:2snl290q]
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Strainer basket seal is one of the most common sources of suction side leaks. It sure looks like it in the first video. What was I supposed to see in the second?

    I'll copy some of what I posted just a day or two ago, because it's relevant


    [center:2cuobpuv]Round up the usual suspects: low water level, stuck weir in the skimmer, loose drain plugs on the
    pump, poor seal on the pump strainer basket, and leaks at the fittings, especially any couplings.
    [youtube:2cuobpuv]vtSmfws0_To[/youtube:2cuobpuv][/center:2cuobpuv]

    Ok I will check those. The 2nd video was shooting bubbles still coming out after SWG was off for a few minutes. I did take the pump top off yesterday. Could be it.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    Ok I will check those. The 2nd video was shooting bubbles still coming out after SWG was off for a few minutes. I did take the pump top off yesterday. Could be it.
    Auto mechanics rule of thumb: the last thing you worked on is the first thing to break.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Will any oring lube from a hardware store work ? I have never lubed the lid oring since installing it late last year.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    Will any oring lube from a hardware store work ? I have never lubed the lid oring since installing it late last year.
    Silicon based grease. Petroleum greases will cause the rubber to swell. Which is fine while it's together, but the next time you open it, the O-ring will jump out at you like one of those joke snakes in a peanut can and you won;t be able to but it back in.

    Pool stores sell tubes of the stuff, and it's not outrageously overpriced like baking soda.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Got some pool pump silicone lube. Doesn't seem to help. I can still see very tiny pencil led size bubbles in the pump. Doesn't look like much at all to me. Pump holds prime always and there is never bubbles bigger than that after running it for a few hours. Also still some coming out of the returns. They seem to shoot out in spurts in a way. Like they are exploding out. Could it be to much hydrogen getting built up because of the way I did my salt cell? If I just do a pipe straight down then put the cell parallel to the ground would that make a difference?

    Also I have not cleaned the cell would the affect anything?


    I have checked my jandy valves, they seem find. Might be where the pipe connects to the pump though. I used blue tape as I didn't have any pipe dope left.

    Thanks for the help.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    gtemkin's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    I used blue tape as I didn't have any pipe dope left.
    Blue tape? As in blue painters tape? Sorry, that won't do. Pipe sealants and teflon "tape" are homogenous materials that lubricate (prevent galling and stiction in threaded joints) and seal by flowing and filling microscopic leak paths. Although teflon tape is called "tape" it has no adhesive and is made of 100% teflon, a very soft, very slick plastic.

    Blue painters tape contains two layers, one is crepe paper and one is a rubber pressure sensitive adhesive. Neither of those will lubricate or flow or seal very well.

    Suggest you clean those threads up really well - lots of wiping with a rag - and use the right stuff.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Teflon tape comes in a variety of grades/thickness from the basic thin white, on to blue, pink and yellow (yellow is I think the thickest and rated for gas service) I am not sure about the difference between blue and pink, but blue teflon tape is much thicker than the common white type, but not nearly as thick as yellow.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin
    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    I used blue tape as I didn't have any pipe dope left.
    Blue tape? As in blue painters tape? Sorry, that won't do. Pipe sealants and teflon "tape" are homogenous materials that lubricate (prevent galling and stiction in threaded joints) and seal by flowing and filling microscopic leak paths. Although teflon tape is called "tape" it has no adhesive and is made of 100% teflon, a very soft, very slick plastic.

    Blue painters tape contains two layers, one is crepe paper and one is a rubber pressure sensitive adhesive. Neither of those will lubricate or flow or seal very well.

    Suggest you clean those threads up really well - lots of wiping with a rag - and use the right stuff.

    Lol ya I used the blue Teflon tape. Sorry should have said. Never crossed my mind someone would think I used painters tape but I see where your could. I have just seen where some people has had problem with the Teflon tape on the pump connection.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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    gtemkin's Avatar
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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle11
    Lol ya I used the blue Teflon tape. Sorry should have said. Never crossed my mind someone would think I used painters tape but I see where your could. I have just seen where some people has had problem with the Teflon tape on the pump connection.
    Whew...my technical faith in humanity has been retrieved. Thanks for confirming.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Have you bled the line on top of your filter? Sometimes doing that will clear out any bubbles in your filter or infloor system.
    12K play pool, sparkle quartz finish, Compupool salt system, PVC2000 infloor system, Emerson 3/4 filter motor, and AO Smith 1 HP infloor motor, PacFab Challenger Pumps

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaimejaime
    Have you bled the line on top of your filter? Sometimes doing that will clear out any bubbles in your filter or infloor system.
    I do not have one on my sand filter.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Possible suction side air leak?

    I have been reading about the ecostar and these small bubbles and it looks like many others have has this problem. My bubbles are very small as can be seen in the linked video below.

    http://youtu.be/zY9zXzBwqvI

    I hold prime at all times and the pump basket is always full. The more I look at it I think it is the SWG.

    I still am looking for a answer on if the way I plumbed the SWG at a 45 degree angle is ok as far as building up hydrogen. My thinking is water at a slower speed could be rushing down at that angle and gravity is creating pockets in which hydrogen is getting trapped which in turn makes bubbles at the returns if you follow what I am saying. I see it like a water slide where the water at slower speeds would just be on the bottom half of the pipe. Maybe I am just fretting over nothing though and off base. I just know it drives me crazy when I see bubbles shooting out and there is really no priming or major bubbles in the pump.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Possible suction side air leak?

    Here is a line from the installation manual

    "The cell may be mounted vertically or horizontally".

    I don't it at a 45 degree angle. Should I re plumb that part? Or is it ok to so it that way.
    18x36 Grecian Vinyl; 8' Roman steps w/t 2 spa jets; cozy cove w/t 6 spa jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 3 returns; Hayward Ecostar, 30" Ranger sand filter; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; Hayward aqua logic; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves

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