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Thread: DIY IG rehab, cement walls, vinyl liner - Pool Filled!!

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    DIY IG rehab, cement walls, vinyl liner - Pool Filled!!

    Hi All -

    My wife and I bought our first house this past fall, and its been an adventure in DIY to say the least. The previous owner had not opened the pool in nine years, so we knew there would be a few issues with it. Some time after the home inspection but before delivery, the liner finally gave up, and the water level drained to the hopper. Over the long winter, we had 36" of snowfall, which put enormous tension on the spring cover, and busted the brick coping off and into the pool.

    The pool was built in 1982 according to the c/o. The walls appears to be poured cement and in good shape. I don't know if the floor is simply sand or vermiculite. The beams appear to be pressure treated 2x6 wood. the liner track is screwed to the 2x6 on the vertical 2" face. The coping is regular red brick set in about 3/4" of mortar with wire mesh. The plumbing appears to be in sound condition. The skimmer and return winter plugs are still tightly screwed in just as they have been for the last 9 years.

    I'm on an extremely tight budget, but would love to get this pool up and running again this year. I know it will be cheaper to rehab it now, than to replace it completely in a few years.

    My plan is as follows:
    1. break up and remove brick coping, and first few courses of brick surrounding the pool.
    2. pump out and remove liner, including whatever dead things might be in there.
    3. remove 2x6 beam from the cement walls
    4. replace with pressure treated 2x8 (if it will fit over the poured cement walls)
    5. screw down new liner track to the top of the 2x8 beams
    6. mortar bullnose or flat nosed pavers (home depot or lowes)
    7. replace wall foam with 1/4"
    8. install new liner, all gaskets and faceplates.
    9. replace filter components as necessary.

    A couple of questions I have are:
    1. Do I need to use special pavers for poor coping? (Cl. resistant?)
    2. What kind of mortar should I use? I have read references to type-s as well as thinset like flexbond (which ain't cheap).
    3. Should I bed wire mesh under the coping pavers again? Is it tied to the wooden beam with screws or staples at all?
    4. The stairs do not appear to be cracked, but they do seem quite flimsey standing on them. Should I replace them, or try and back fill them?
    5. The liner track comes to a 90" corner with no radius. I don't see any foam corner pieces in there. Does the liner come to a sharp corner once the pool is filled?

    Any suggestions you guys might have for me on my journey?

    Here are a couple pictures of the disaster in question. Enjoy!










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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Wow! Can't wait to see this done...
    24,000 20x42 double roman end in ground pool being built. Start date june13, 2012.
    Finished July 4th, 2012, sports pool, vinyl,SWG, DE filter, fountains. Heat pump,
    First Pool Ever!

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Blessedwithfivekids
    Wow! Can't wait to see this done...
    Thanks. I guess it looks pretty rough right now, doesn't it?!

    Anyway, Im leaning towards using flexbond, despite its high price. Ill apply the thinset over the liner track and wood, and ill be sure to back-butter the pavers as they go down. I guess Ill need to thinset between the pavers, leaving a grout line, otherwise Ill be inviting water in, and giving ice a chance to split my handywork during the winter.

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Anyone have any good advice on getting the mortar to securely adhere to the 2x6? Id prefer a more elegant solution than leaving a bunch of screw heads protruding from the face of the 2x6.

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    On the coping "pavers". I recently diy built a pool and used bullnose concrete step tread that were 12"x24"x2". I poured a concrete bond and used flexbond as well. With such straight lines, you could cover ground a lot faster 24" at a time. Idk if you're interested, but I found these at www.horizon-stone.net. If you mortar to wood, you need to attach roofing paper and steel mesh to the wood first. Then scratch coat with mortar. Then attach pavers to scratch coat. I used tile grout for my joints and sealed it well. I also cant wait to see progress pics. Good luck!
    34,000 gal., 20x40 Roman, IG Steel/Vinyl, 500# Hayward Sand Filter, 2HP Ecostar-VS, Savi Note LEDs, Autopilot Digital 220 SWG

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Do you have the room to add a layer of cement board to the 2x6's?
    18'x43' Sport Pool
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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Good idea with the cement board!
    34,000 gal., 20x40 Roman, IG Steel/Vinyl, 500# Hayward Sand Filter, 2HP Ecostar-VS, Savi Note LEDs, Autopilot Digital 220 SWG

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by janthony
    On the coping "pavers". I recently diy built a pool and used bullnose concrete step tread that were 12"x24"x2". I poured a concrete bond and used flexbond as well. With such straight lines, you could cover ground a lot faster 24" at a time. Idk if you're interested, but I found these at http://www.horizon-stone.net. If you mortar to wood, you need to attach roofing paper and steel mesh to the wood first. Then scratch coat with mortar. Then attach pavers to scratch coat. I used tile grout for my joints and sealed it well. I also cant wait to see progress pics. Good luck!
    Thank you! They didn't use any roofing paper on the existing installation, but they did use the mesh lath. I've been looking around, and I cant seem to find a source for a roll of the stuff 6 to 8 inches wide. Where might I find such a beast?

    I would consider eliminating the wood altogether, but I would need to find a way to raise the walls by 1.5 to 2 inches, and then I would need to find a way to attach the liner track into the masonry. If you've got a good solution for those, I'm all ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo
    Do you have the room to add a layer of cement board to the 2x6's?
    I don't see a reason why I couldn't add some CBU under the pavers. I need to measure for a new liner anyway, and the extra 1/2 inch wont make a difference. I was considering this earlier, but thought the bond will only be as strong as the fasteners, so I kind of wrote it off. Now I will reconsider. Perhaps some construction adhesive between the 2x6 and CBU will help things?

    Thanks again for the info, both of you.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    I'm a bit late to the thread but I would not consider using wood anywhere around a pool unless it is completely submerged or underground constantly. There is simply too much movement in wood as the moisture moves in and out and any tile attempt on top of it will result in failure.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I'm a bit late to the thread but I would not consider using wood anywhere around a pool unless it is completely submerged or underground constantly. There is simply too much movement in wood as the moisture moves in and out and any tile attempt on top of it will result in failure.
    I'd be fine with foregoing the wood, but I don't have a cost effective way to attach a liner track. I know it sucks to use wood anywhere, but I'm OK with changing it out again next time i change my liner. Maybe by then Ill have the budget to pour a cement deck and then put brick over it. The existing pressure treated wood was in surprisingly good condition for 30 years old. But you do make a good point in terms of movement.

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    If you caulk the bullnose coping, you may get away with it but thinset mortar and grout will fail.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    If you caulk the bullnose coping, you may get away with it but thinset mortar and grout will fail.
    They had used wood originally, and the brick lasted for nearly 30 years before it finally started breaking

    What do you think about this eight layer cake using flexbond to allow some flex?

    Pavers
    flexbond thinset
    liner track
    cement backer board
    construction adhesive
    treated 2x6
    construction adhesive
    concrete walls

    I will screw the cement board down through the 2x6 and into the cement walls with as many masonry screws as I can.

    Would it be wiser just to sandwich two layers of cement backerboard to build up the same height as a 2x6 instead?

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Also, I should note that the sand the pavers are currently set in comes right up against the 2" back edge of the 2x6. This may keep moisture in the wood more than if it was high and dry, but at the cost of wood rotting sooner.

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Yeah, that might work. My concern would be the woods ability to dry out and then get wet again. If it does, I don't think anything can hold it. However, if it is below grade in the back it just might get enough moisture from the sand to remain stable.

    Have you considered bringing the wall up to height with a concrete pour and then placing a liner bead directly onto that new pour?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Yeah, that might work. My concern would be the woods ability to dry out and then get wet again. If it does, I don't think anything can hold it. However, if it is below grade in the back it just might get enough moisture from the sand to remain stable.

    Have you considered bringing the wall up to height with a concrete pour and then placing a liner bead directly onto that new pour?
    To do a continuous pour is beyond the scope of DIY, I'm afraid. In the heart of long island, any outside contractor carries an enormous cost, not to mention the collateral damage clearing a path for the cement truck (removing fence, and other fixtures at the side of the house). I'm an avid DIY'er out of necessity, since its the only way to survive around these parts.

    I supposed I could bed the liner bead into 2 inches of type S mortar if I can find a way to hold a form to the inner side, but I'm not sure if that's a particularly wise move either.

    What about maybe ripping it down to a pressure treated 2x2 onthe inner edge to secure the liner bead, and then filling the back 4 or 5 inches with type S and directly mortaring in the pavers? Then again, its still 2+ inches of mortar. I'm no mason, but that seems like asking for trouble.

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Why not use bagged concrete and then use masonry screws to attach cantilever coping?
    34,000 gal., 20x40 Roman, IG Steel/Vinyl, 500# Hayward Sand Filter, 2HP Ecostar-VS, Savi Note LEDs, Autopilot Digital 220 SWG

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by janthony
    Why not use bagged concrete and then use masonry screws to attach cantilever coping?
    I was under the assumption you needed a continuous pour with any concrete. I'll have to do some reading to see if that's a viable option.

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Or maybe a better choice than pouring would be 2" pre-cast concrete block? I could mortar the block to the top of the concrete walls, then attach the liner track with masonry screws, then mortar whatever finish brick I want on top.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
    Or maybe a better choice than pouring would be 2" pre-cast concrete block? I could mortar the block to the top of the concrete walls, then attach the liner track with masonry screws, then mortar whatever finish brick I want on top.
    That might be the cheapest and best idea yet if 2" works for you.
    34,000 gal., 20x40 Roman, IG Steel/Vinyl, 500# Hayward Sand Filter, 2HP Ecostar-VS, Savi Note LEDs, Autopilot Digital 220 SWG

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    Re: DIY inground rehab, vinyl liner over poured cement walls

    Or maybe a better choice than pouring would be 2" pre-cast concrete block?
    Now you're talkin'!! That'll work.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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