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Thread: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

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    Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Here are my stats:
    CYA 50
    F.C 5
    PH 7.5
    TA 60
    Total Hardness: very low (never raised it because its a vinyl pool)

    I have shocked, filtered 24/7, (cleaned filters constantly),vacuumed, scrubbed and the green algae just keeps coming back.
    Haven't used the poly algae killer stuff yet as I try to keep my chem usage as little as possible and not
    sure this stuff works that well anyway, but it may be the only thing left I can try?

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    The problem is that the Shock Level FC for your CYA level is 20, and you're only at 5. http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...a_chart_shock. And I'll bet you got that by a color-matching chlorine test, too, which isn't all that accurate.

    Don't put in algaecide! It works better as a preventative than as a treatment. All you really need is bleach, and lots of it. http://www.troublefreepool.com/first...ch-t45074.html

    Head on over to and study up on chemical levels, testing, algae and the shock process.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Colour matching, yes, you must be psychic and the thing only reads up to 5!

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    ps: is there a danger of rotting the liner and or seams at such high FC levels?

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraIntex
    ps: is there a danger of rotting the liner and or seams at such high FC levels?
    No. The "active" chlorine at that CYA level isn't even close to, say, 5 with no CYA.

    Somewhere there's a chart by chemgeek that shows it, but I don't feel like hunting for it.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    No, those FC levels with CYA in the pool are the equivalent to less than tap water.
    That is if you stay within the shock levels for your CYA level.

    It's all because of the CYA which sequesters much of the active CL, which is the FC "Hypochlorous Acid" making only a small percentage of it available at any given time.

    Chem Geek has many explanations on this along with the numbers if you're interested in searching for it.

    *To: Chem Geek, I hope I got that simple explanation right.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Ok, the link for shocking with bleach shows an enourmous amount of bleach.
    I live in a country area with one supermarket which only sells small bottles of bleach, which are expensive, there is no way it is feasible for me to use bleach.
    I may be able to get some chlorine here, which may work out a cheaper way to do it.
    To what extent can I use the SWG to up the FC if I leave it on? I assume there is a max the 3000ppm salt can produce?
    I also need a way to measure above FC 5.

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraIntex
    Ok, the link for shocking with bleach shows an enourmous amount of bleach.
    I live in a country area with one supermarket which only sells small bottles of bleach, which are expensive, there is no way it is feasible for me to use bleach.
    I may be able to get some chlorine here, which may work out a cheaper way to do it.
    To what extent can I use the SWG to up the FC if I leave it on? I assume there is a max the 3000ppm salt can produce?
    I also need a way to measure above FC 5.
    Measuring above 5 is done with a FAS-DPD test kit.

    That may be hard to come by for you; I notice your spelling is British-like. Australian, perhaps?

    Bleach is just Sodium Hypochlorite. If there's dairying where you live, you might find what you want at a farm supply store, in big carboys. They use it to sanitize the milking parlours.

    Don't try to shock with the SWG, you'll just burn out the element.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320

    Bleach is just Sodium Hypochlorite. If there's dairying where you live, you might find what you want at a farm supply store, in big carboys. They use it to sanitize the milking parlours.
    Yes we have a couple of farm supply stores. I will take a look on monday.
    I will find out the concentration, if you could help me work out how much I need from that thanks.

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Here's a link to the pool calculator so you can work out what you heed based on what percentage is available.
    pool-school/pool_calculator
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Spoke to the local dairy and they use
    12% bleach $40 for 20Litres: to order (also available in 5L and 200L)
    Locally I can get in stock:
    Dry pool chlorine 10kg 650g/kg available chlorine $72, 4 boxes in stock
    Liquid chlorine 20L, 125g/L available chlorine $45, 1 in stock
    Liquid chlorine 5L, 125g/L $19, 4 in stock

    Supermarket bleach:
    2litre bottles, "no more than" 4% $2.75 each, 10 bottles in stock
    2.5litre bottles 4% +9g/l sodium hydroxide, $3.79 each, 8 bottles in stock

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Dry chlorine isn't enough info. Trichlor, dichlor, and cal hypo are all forms of dry chlorine. Generically, the. -clors add CYA and the cal hypo add CH which may be ok for short term if your current CH is low enough.

    Either 20L 12% is fine.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    The dry is labelled Calcium Hypochlorite and works out the cheapest at about $9 per shock.
    MSDS has only Calcium Hypochlorite as ingredient.
    My pool has about zero calcium so adding some isnt a problem.

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    WOW!! That's 49c/CL oz on the 20L carboy.
    OUCH!!

    Or 47c/CL oz if it's 12.5% bleach which is more common, not 12%.

    Depending on how much CL you need, and how bad the outbreak is. It may behoove you to go with the 50gal drum if it's considerably cheaper per CL oz.

    Maybe get with a neighbor that has a pool and split the drum?

    Also, shocking is not a product, but a process. You don't just throw 1 bag in and call it shocked. You put in however much CL you need to reach shock level, based on your CYA level and the target FC you're trying to reach. Then you hold it there, keep testing, keep adding. Until your problem is cleared up.

    Bleach here in the USA is the cheapest form of chlorine, cheaper than stabilized dry versions. Yes, what you're looking at there won't add any CYA, just calcium.

    Depending on the concentration of cal-hypo that you can get there. 10kg of it will yield an FC level of 90-137.
    That 20 liter carboy of 12.5% bleach will yield an FC level of 47ppm.

    Cost wise, can't say till I know what percentage your cal-hypo is. Too much math to do. LOL


    BTW, are you in Canada, UK?
    *Any measurements represented in gallons have been rounded to the nearest common amount we use here in the US. Simply as representative figures for easy reading.
    However, figures where calculated have not and were used to the nearest 10,000th.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Quote Originally Posted by y_not
    WOW!! That's 49c/CL oz on the 20L carboy.
    OUCH!!

    Or 47c/CL oz if it's 12.5% bleach which is more common, not 12%.

    Depending on how much CL you need, and how bad the outbreak is. It may behoove you to go with the 50gal drum if it's considerably cheaper per CL oz.

    Maybe get with a neighbor that has a pool and split the drum?

    Also, shocking is not a product, but a process. You don't just throw 1 bag in and call it shocked. You put in however much CL you need to reach shock level, based on your CYA level and the target FC you're trying to reach. Then you hold it there, keep testing, keep adding. Until your problem is cleared up.

    Bleach here in the USA is the cheapest form of chlorine, cheaper than stabilized dry versions. Yes, what you're looking at there won't add any CYA, just calcium.

    Depending on the concentration of cal-hypo that you can get there. 10kg of it will yield an FC level of 90-137.
    That 20 liter carboy of 12.5% bleach will yield an FC level of 47ppm.

    Cost wise, can't say till I know what percentage your cal-hypo is. Too much math to do. LOL


    BTW, are you in Canada, UK?
    *Any measurements represented in gallons have been rounded to the nearest common amount we use here in the US. Simply as representative figures for easy reading.
    However, figures where calculated have not and were used to the nearest 10,000th.
    Australia, that's why I'm opening the pool now..... Everything costs quite a lot more here= if its small enough to post, order it online from the US!
    The cal hypo is I think 65% ie 650g per Kilo. I would convert all the figures for you but it would just get messy. The main thing to remember is that 1USD=1AUD at the moment.

    The pool calculator says that to get my FC up from 7 (have been running SWG today) to 20 would take 1kg of 65% cal hypo, giving me 10 shocks from one box= $7.20 per shock (I think)?
    Water is a bit cloudy now, but leave it a couple of days without vacuuming and there will be about 3" of brownish looking algae on the floor and a film over the walls. Its never been pea soup but I guess it's waiting in the wings.

    PS: I haven't seen or heard of the word 'behoove' since that film 'The Best Little *****house In Texas" where the Governor promises to clean up:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJG75FJkjr8



    [attachment=0:17gzj0ub]poolalgae 006.jpg[/attachment:17gzj0ub]
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraIntex
    Australia, that's why I'm opening the pool now..... Everything costs quite a lot more here= if its small enough to post, order it online from the US!
    The cal hypo is I think 65% ie 650g per Kilo. I would convert all the figures for you but it would just get messy. The main thing to remember is that 1USD=1AUD at the moment.

    The pool calculator says that to get my FC up from 7 (have been running SWG today) to 20 would take 1kg of 65% cal hypo, giving me 10 shocks from one box= $7.20 per shock (I think)?
    Water is a bit cloudy now, but leave it a couple of days without vacuuming and there will be about 3" of brownish looking algae on the floor and a film over the walls. Its never been pea soup but I guess it's waiting in the wings.

    PS: I haven't seen or heard of the word 'behoove' since that film 'The Best Little *****house In Texas" where the Governor promises to clean up:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJG75FJkjr8
    HAHA, I'm quite the literary nerd /w a rather large vocabulary. I use lots of odd words in odd places, often getting looks, or people asking what that word means. UGH! I can't help it. But it's kinda funny too.

    I had a super good laugh with that clip, it was actually somewhat disturbing to watch. I thought I had seen that film, but I was confusing it with the "Cheyenne Social Club" /w Jimmy Stewart.
    I have probably seen this one /w Bert Reynolds and Dolly Parton, but I was just too young to recall it. I'm sure when I start watching it I'll remember pieces of it. Added it to Netflix.

    Oh, and he said "...to clean up the government". Well, your pool needs cleaning too.

    Awesome, an Aussie, Cool!! I have a buddy that currently lives in Sydney, before that in Kalgoorlie IIRC and before that in the Outback in a copper mining town. Sorry, I'm horrid /w names.
    Yeah, it's crazy how much more many things cost down there.
    We live in the twillies, but not as sparsely populated as where you live.
    So I have a bit of a feel for what it's like to have to order many things by mail, things you can get in bigger cities, or they just cost too much here.

    As for your chlorine supply conundrum.
    According to pool calc, using all 10kg of cal-hypo 65% in your size pool would yield an FC of 122ppm.
    That assumes not organics in the water.

    To raise your FC by that much using the 12.5% bleach would require 1756oz.
    If I calculate how many active CL oz that is, then multiply that by your cost per CL oz from the dairy. I get $103.86.
    YIKES!!!
    Here, for what I pay in Oregon, in the sticks almost. That would be 14 jugs @ 182oz/ea. with a cost per jug of $2.69. My cost would be $37.66.
    HUUUUGGEEE!!! Difference.
    My cost works out to around .18c/CL oz.

    I'd say you're getting ripped off, at least as far as pricing here goes.

    Given that information, which shows cal-hypo costing a tick under 31% less than the liquid bleach. I'd say that's your best option.

    However, I must say that for myself, $72 is a lot of money to throw into a pool that's only 14k gal. That's not litres, right?
    Granted you likely won't use that much cal-hypo, but either way it's the same monetary drain.
    If your water is cheap enough, I'd drain it. Then scrub the walls with dilute bleach and fill it back up. Here were we live, that'd be waaaayyyy cheaper than that much CL.

    If you decide to go that route, someone else will have to chime in on the bleach scrubbing operation. As to whether you really need to dilute 4% bleach to prevent liner damage/discoloration from direct contact. If so how much.
    Also what you'd do with sanitizing your filter since you didn't do a full shock. As I have never done either one of those.

    If you decide to shock, being your prices are what they are and you have room to go up on CH. I'd stick /w cal-hypo.
    But do not use dichlor or trichlor because of the CYA they add. Also, check the back of the cal-hypo package or container for the "%" of active ingredient and use that in pool calc.
    Lastly, DO NOT follow the instructions on the package. Use poolcalc.com and follow the advice of it and this forum + pool school.

    You will also need a FAS-DPD kit in order to shock and complete the process, passing the final grade in the end so you know when you're done.
    Being in Ausland, you can't get it from the states "technically". But you can get it from a supplier down there.
    See this thread, read it too, there's good info there in regards to it. first-pool-ever-sydney-australia-t53792.html#p442726

    Oh, when adding calcium to a pool, it will make the water cloudy until it dissolves into solution. No biggie.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Thanks mate.
    There 'aint no way I'm ever draining that pool until the **** thing bursts, the water cost me $600! and yes that's 14K gallons.
    If I get the dry chlorine, it means I have plenty on hand if the first shock dosent work or if I have the same problem next year, plus it's easier to store
    than liquid.
    The TF100 kit costs $130 delivered and its in stock in Oz.
    I am looking into a standalone Palintest for a higher FC as I already have standalone tests for most other things so the TF kit will be doubling up on tests I can already do.
    Plus it would take the cost of my little algae problem up to $200.

    As for getting supplies: think Ike Godsey's store on Walton's Mountain circa 1927 and you have the picture. One thing is for sure, you sure learn patience waiting for stuff!

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    OUCH!! That's insanely expensive water.
    I'm assuming it was trucked in?
    Even then, that's still high.

    14k gal would cost me a little under $20 here off city water.
    *BTW, just giving the comparisons because I'm astonished at the cost disparity and I think it's educational to compare things.

    Soooo that makes the cal-hypo a very good value.
    If you're getting a Palin Test product, then just get the FAS-DPD as well.
    Do not bother with the color comparator methods for CL testing.
    Make sure you can test for CYA using the turbidimetric melamine method, pH using a high quality color comparator (this is the only accurate way) like the Taylor basic block, Total Alkalinity - TA, Calcium Hardness - CH and you're good to go along with the FAS-DPD kit.
    I would highly recommend a speed stir unit if you can swing it, but it's not a must.
    You can see a demo video in that other thread I linked to.

    Here's one for the FAS-DPD so you know what it's all about.
    [youtube:1l3c2y2i]PHQG4tgQsFE[/youtube:1l3c2y2i]

    Keep in mind that you aren't buying a test kit just to shock your pool. No, it's much, much more than that. It's a pool management tool that you use regularly to keep you in the known as to the goings on of your water. It's an investment, saving you costs on expensive, false "wonder" "fix all" chemicals. Instead, using cheaper alternatives that are the same as the pool store's and through regular testing keeping your pool more crystal clear than you have ever seen it.

    I balked at it too, my pool is only 3284gal. But I bit the bullet and bought it. It's AWESOME!!
    The water is now so clear that it looks like it's not even there. It looks like glass. At night, it looks empty!!
    AAAHMAZING!! No smell, no bad taste, just clean, clear water.
    It's heaven!! And it's not possible without the proper tools.

    Ask anyone here that's not a new visitor and they'll tell you the same kind of thing.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Yes it was trucked in and the guy did me a good discount as he is a neighbour otherwise it would have been about $800.

    All last season it was crystal clear no probs at all and only used a CYA turbidity test, good quality fresh test strips for everyday testing, salt test strips (backed up with a couple of tests at the local extension office using their v expensive machine $7 a pop), and a colour tester as back up/double checking for TA, PH and FC up to 5.
    Oh and an iron test kit when the water was new.
    The water was very good quality which I suppose it should have been considering the price.

    The algae problem really was because I left too many leaves sit and rot in the pool after the garbage Intex winter cover fell to bits and let everything into the pool.
    Plus I pruned all the trees around the pool and a lot of the sawdust fell into the pool and added more veg matter to the mix.
    So I think the problem wasnt poor testing it was poor winter cleaning.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Opening: Algae is winning: help please!

    Just a point about shocking. You mentioned you'd get 10 shocks out of the cal hypo. That is not what we mean by shocking. Read the pool school article on it and you will see what I mean. You will raise it to the level needed and then hold it there. There is no way to know how long this will take or how much it will take. Keeping the FC a little higher when the leaves drop will help next time around.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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