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Thread: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

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    Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Hi
    Had the shotcrete done on Wednesday. The workers left pretty late and it was just about dark so yesterday as soon as I got home from work I ran out to take a look. The stairs look ridiculous. I have a tanning shelf with two steps down into the pool. They look so bad I got my measuring tape. The bottom step from floor of the pool is 3/12 inches, to the next step is 12 inches, then to the tanning shelf is another 12 inches. I'm thinking it should have been more like 9 inches each step. It was difficult to say the least going up and down these steps. We are in a retirement community and I worry about later on as we get older. Will try and post a photo. I immediately called the designer and he called the owner of the pool company. Waiting to hear back from them now. What would a satisfactory remedy be for this? To take the stairs completely out and redo. Please help, I'm don't know about these kind of issues.
    Thanks in advance.
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Not sure what you mean by 3/12 inches, but 12" is typical for pool steps. They feel really big when there's no water in the pool, but once the pool is filled it will be a lot easier to go up and down. If you are very concerned, talk with the builder about it, but it doesn't sound like anything unusual was done.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    I think OP is talking about the risers being uneven 3.5, 12, and 12. I am not a PB but I would NEVER accept that. Uneven steps, at the VERY best, are incredibly awkward and, in residential building codes for occupied structures a serious code violation.

    My first choice would be 4 even steps of roughly 7" each but I suppose I could deal with 3 - 9's.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    [attachment=0:3n2peq5l]IMAG0519.jpg[/attachment:3n2peq5l]Hope this picture will explain it.
    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I think OP is talking about the risers being uneven 3.5, 12, and 12. I am not a PB but I would NEVER accept that. Uneven steps, at the VERY best, are incredibly awkward and, in residential building codes for occupied structures a serious code violation.

    My first choice would be 4 even steps of roughly 7" each but I suppose I could deal with 3 - 9's.
    I think that 3 1/2" from the last step to the bottom of the pool is not necessarily a trip hazard but I agree with you that it could have laid out better. Around these parts I think maximum riser height is 7 3/4". I too would definitely want 4 steps of 7". Residential code also dictates that any variance between rise shall be no more than 3/8". If three steps were an absolute then I would want first and second steps at 7 3/4" and could live with that last step to the bottom at 12".
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Is the only way to fix this, to have them take them out completely and redo them?
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    It may be possible for them to build the last 2 steps up to give you three 9" steps (I am not concrete expert). Of course that bottom pipe might be a bit short.

    I think making it be 4 steps would be more problematic requiring more area for the steps and missing a popup on one of the steps.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Perhaps a concrete expert will chime in here....
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    703.2 Stairs/Steps. Stairs/steps shall have a slip resistant surface and no sharp edges. Public pools shall have a maximum riser height of ten (10) inches (254 mm) with a minimum horizontal tread depth of twelve (12) inches (305 mm). Riser height variation within each stair shall not exceed one (1) inch (25.4 mm). The distance from the bottom of the pool to the bottom step shall not be considered a riser. Private pools, private and public spas and water features shall have a maximum riser height of twelve (12) inches (305 mm), with a minimum horizontal tread depth of twelve (12) inches (305 mm). Steps shall extend to a depth of forty-two (42) inches (1067 mm) of water depth or within twelve (12) inches (305 mm) of a portion of the pool floor. The distance from the bottom of the pool to the bottom step shall not be considered a riser.

    This is my city's pool code regarding stairs. Do I have a case to have them redone? My designer is coming by on his way home this evening.
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Public pools shall have a maximum ......
    Public Pools. Doesn't seem to pertain to your pool.

    Nevertheless, I simply would not accept it. I believe your PB will work with you. You get a lot more flies with honey.... (as opposed to threatening lawsuits)
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Based on your quote in the middle, the Private pools have a max of 12" and the bottom step does not count as a riser. So, sounds like they are to code ... although a little odd.

    You can ask to change to 3 steps at 9", but it might cost you since they are currently acceptable as far as the city is concerned.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    The 3 steps at 9" sounds reasonable to me, but in doing that would we have to have all the steps taken out and redone? I don't want to do anything that will jeopardize the integrity of the cement. The designer is on is way over and will be here in about 15 minutes. I want to have an idea as to a solution. Thanks so much for the input.
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    I think they should be able to just build on top of the existing steps ... again, I am not certain how the concrete bonds with itself, but I thought I had read situations where only half the pool was shot at a time, which would indicate it is possible.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    The designer just left, they're not budging. He just kept saying "but they're up to code" "but they're up to code" . I'm so disappointed. If I had had any clue that the code was 12 inches I would have changed it from the beginning. We had a pool built back in 1984 and the stairs were probably between 7 & 9 inches. I just never even thought it was something that needed to be discussed.
    Inground shotcrete, deco & glass tile, 30' x 15', 6 ft depth, 401 sq. ft., Sta-Rite VS3050 pump, 400 Sta-Rite Mod Media Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm Heater, Intellichlor Salt Chlorinator, PV3 Infloor cleaner, IntelliBrite Led Spa & Pool lights. Quartz - Blue Cayman finish.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Well if you are willing to pay, I am sure they will change it. Just depends how much it is worth to you.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Well, just out of curiosity, I went out to my above-ground pool and measured the pre-molded steps that I purchased with my pool and the risers are 12". Anyway, for what it's worth, the height of my steps has never seemed awkward or difficult to maneuver.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    I can understand your frustration. It looks odd. Hopefully when the pool is filled it won't seem so bad!
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    I think it's unacceptable. Code or not, it's an obvious trip hazard and the gunite crew's fault.

    Your builder should be on your side to get a remedy.

    I think construction should be halted until it's fixed.
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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    Durango,
    The majority of pools are shot with the top step 9" down, then 12" down to next step/bench then 12" down to third step.
    Depending on how deep your pool is where that third step is, will determine the riser height. That is why the code says that that measurement varies. So did they do anything wrong No. Should they be willing to make you happy, Yes.
    Here is my question:
    How deep is your pool supposed to be at that end. If it is 3' and your last riser is 3" then they are 3" short. A 3' pool will be 39" deep from the top of bond beam. So typically with a 3' deep pool going into the 3' end you will have a 6" riser.

    Quite honestly once it is filled you will never notice it, it is totally different coming in and out with water in it, then dry.

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    Re: Shotcrete done...stairs not uniform

    I don't think this will be a problem when the pool is finished. But if it's bugging you, make them fix it. It's not trivial, but it's not that big of a deal to correct.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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