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Thread: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

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    tomzo's Avatar
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    Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Greetings,

    I just added a slide to my pool and I want to automate the operation of the slide so that my kids can turn the water flow to the slide on and off from our Quicktouch remote. I am finding that with my single body version of the Easytouch 4 I may not be able to do this. I am using valves A and B for my cleaner and solar systems but need to add a third to control the slide.

    I have seen a lot of posts about Jandy splitters and relays, etc. I am using an Intelliflo pump so my filter pump relay is unused and I have tested the re-use of this relay by plugging it into the 2 speed pump socket and setting a feature to power up that relay from the remote. Since the actuators are also 24V is there a way to use a relay to initiate operation of the actuator?

    Any advice would be appreciated!

    Thanks

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Hi,
    Currently I don't have automation for my pool but I'm considering the Easytouch 4 or 8. With my setup I would require 3 valve actuators: Pressure Side Cleaner, Waterfall and future Solar. I have read up on the Easytouch systems and determined that an Aux circuit could be connected to a single pole double throw (SPDT) relay (Form-C) to control a valve actuator. These type of relays are made by Allen-Bradley, Idec, etc. The Idec part number would be RH1B-ULAC24C with SH1B-05 relay base. You can get these type of relays online at places like Newark. In regards to programming the system for activating the Aux circuit I personally couldn't answer that.

    I looking forward to seeing how this works for you.

    Hope this helps,
    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    tomzo's Avatar
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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Thanks for the info Todd.

    I don't know enough about how the actuator works to know where to apply voltage to get it to go one way or the other. My guess is that there are three wires because one is a ground and the other two carry 24V power to run the motor in one direction or the other. I am just guessing here - perhaps someone with more knowledge than I could weigh in here.

    So if I understand how the SPDT relay works, one of the poles will have 24V on it until the relay is tripped at which time it switches to the other pole, correct? So I would wire the normally closed position to the pole that is active when the relay is not being tripped and the other to the pole that I want to move the valve open when the slide is activated, correct? This way when the slide is told to turn off the relay switches back to the original position and closes the valve.

    As I am typing this it strikes me that the three wires may do somethign completely different at which point the above would not work. I suppose it could be that one wire is 24V, one is a ground, and one sends some sort of signal to the actuator to move one way or the other. Since you can manually initiate valve operation from the switch on the body of the actuator this tells me that it has voltage ready to go all the time so this is more likely the situation.

    I like the idea of the SPDT relay - all I need now is to know how the actuator is wired. I think I might do some testing on the motherboard with a voltage meter to see what these wires are doing.

    Thanks

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Tom,

    There are 2 power wires (24VAC) and 1 Common Wire. You are correct in saying that the 2 power wires would get wired to the relay and the common wire would get spliced into the common for the 24VAC system. When a SPDT relay is not energized 1 contact from the relay has power on it (valve to close) and when the relay is energized the other contact has power on it (valve to open). With this type of relay only 1 wire (out of 2 power wires) to the valve actuator has power on it at any given time.

    In terms of the valve actuator, 1 power wire is for turning valve 1 direction, and the other is for turning the valve the opposite direction. The 2 power wires to the valve actuator should NEVER have 24VAC on both wires at the same time (could burn up motor in valve actuator). The relay would only allow to be powered up at any given time.

    I hope this clarifies this.

    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Tom,

    I would test the pins at were the existing valves plug into the motherboard. This would give you an idea of which wire is common or 24VAC. Most likely the center pin on the motherboard valve socket it common and the pins to the left and right are power. As long as you get the common (ground) connected correctly you could change the orientation of the valve actuator with the switch on the back of them. If you wire the valve up to close but it opens then flip the switch on the actuator to the other position.

    Hope this helps.

    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Thanks Todd - that is perfect.

    So I will need to wire one of the leads on the relay to a constant 24V source and use the "Aux Extra" output to switch the relay, correct?

    Thanks

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Tom

    Here is a wiring diagram for the Intermatic Valve Actuator (http://ak.poolsupplyworld.com/wpdf/pe24va_install.pdf). I noticed that you are using the Pentair Actuator, but this should assist you. That is correct you will need a constant 24VAC on input of the relay that will be switched which will probably be tapped off the 24VAC circuit breaker. Then, you will need to remove the pigtail from a Aux relay that connects to the motherboard and attach it to the relay for controlling the relays coil.

    Thanks,
    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Tom,
    I noticed that Jason recommended the Jandy 5254 JVA which would work in place of the relay that I recommended. Both setups would work identical but the Jandy system would be plug and play where as the relay setup would require cutting wires to connect to it.

    Hope this helps,
    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Quote Originally Posted by tomzo
    So I will need to wire one of the leads on the relay to a constant 24V source and use the "Aux Extra" output to switch the relay, correct?
    Isn't Aux Extra disabled when the system is set up for solar?

    --Michael
    Slidell, Louisiana (near New Orleans) 11,000gal kidney shaped Trilogy fiberglass pool Intelliflo VS Triton TR100 filter Easytouch 4 w/IC20 SWCG Polaris 280

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    That wiring diagram tells it all - looks like Black is the common in this scenario.

    The Jandy device looks interesting - I wonder where it gets its power supply? The other thing is cost - I see that Jandy board going for $70 or so but I can get the relay and base for about $15.

    Thanks a ton for the advice!

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    It looks like the black 3 wire ribbon cable on the Jandy board is where the power comes in.

    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    (The Idec part number would be RH1B-ULAC24C with SH1B-05 relay base.)

    Sorry I misspelled the part number, should be: RH1B-ULAC24V.

    Your welcome on the advice. That's what make this site awesome.

    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Quote Originally Posted by english72
    It looks like the black 3 wire ribbon cable on the Jandy board is where the power comes in.

    Todd
    Todd - if I am using the relay to power an actuator that is wired as the one in the diagram you sent over, would I not want the black to be the common and alternate the 24vac from red to white? If I turn the power on and off to the black wire, how would the double throw relay work in that situation?

    Sorry - I think I misinterpreted your post. If I use the Jandy adapter I would need to put 24vac to the black wire. My question above would be related to the use of a relay.

    Thanks again for your help!

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    You would want the Black wire (Common) to go directly to the 24VAC Common on the Motherboard. Then you would want to land the White and Red wires on the Relay Base. Then you would need a wire from the 24VAC on the Motherboard (unswitched) to land on the relay base to supply power for the Valve Actuator. Here is a wiring diagram of the relay (http://us.idec.com/Common/Download.aspx?d=427) see page 778 and look under With Indicator (-L type) SPDT diagram. Terminal number 5 would be connected to the 24VAC from the circuit breaker. The Red and White wires from the valve actuator would be connected to terminals 1 and 9. The pigtail for energizing the relay from the Motherboard will be connected to terminals 13 and 14 (doesn't matter which wires go to which terminal because VAC for coil).
    You only what to switch the power between the Red and White wires which controls which direction the valve actuator moves to (open or close).

    Hope this clarifies it.

    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Wow - perfect! Final question - on the Easytouch motherboard there is a red and a red/white wire that is connected to the 24vac power supply. I am presuming that the red wire is the power and the red/white is a common, correct? If this is the case then I splice the black lead from the actuator to the red lead from the power supply.

    Thanks

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Looking at the wiring diagram, it looks like the Red/White wire comes out of the circuit breaker. Based on my experience, you place the circuit breaker on the power leg and not on the common leg. This transformer could be setup with a floating common for the 12VAC, 18VAC, and 24VAC. From what I see the Red Wire is Common and Red/White is Power. Based on this information, you are going to want to connect the Black wire from the Valve Actuator to the Red Wire (24VAC Common) going to the Motherboard from the transformer. Then you are going to splice (add) a wire from the Red/White wire (circuit breaker to motherboard) to terminal 5 on the relay base. This will be the power for actuating the valve.

    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Quote Originally Posted by mcaswell
    Quote Originally Posted by tomzo
    So I will need to wire one of the leads on the relay to a constant 24V source and use the "Aux Extra" output to switch the relay, correct?
    Isn't Aux Extra disabled when the system is set up for solar?

    --Michael
    Michael,

    I can control the Aux Extra even though I have solar. I added it to Feature 7 and can toggle it on and off from the controller and using my QuickTouch remote.

    Tom
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Todd - that makes perfect sense. I presume taps like these should work?

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2104093
    21K Gal Vinyl In Ground with block wall sides (Self Built with help), Pentair Easy Touch controller, Pentair Intelliflo pump, Intellichlor salt system, Clean and Clear Plus filter, SR Smith Typhoon Slide

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    Tom,
    Yes those kind of taps would work.
    In regards to solar setup on your Easytouch. How are you able to control the Aux Extra? Is solar setup as a Heat Pump instead of Solar which would allow you to use Aux Extra?
    Also, I'm deciding on the Easytouch system. How do you like it? Does it do everything that you want it to?
    After you setup the slide controls, please let us know how it works. I'm sure others on this site would like to have the ability to add additional valve actuators on the Easytouch system and I think that this information would be helpful to others.

    Thanks again,
    Todd
    20k Gallon IG Pebble-Tec, 1.5HP Max-E-Pro, Sta-Rite 300 Sq-Ft Cartridge Filter, Polaris 360, 4' Shear Waterfall
    Future - Solar and Automation
    TFT Kit + Pool Calculator + BBB = :)

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    Re: Control third valve with Easytouch 4 Single Body system

    There is more to an actuator controller than a SPDT relay. While the proposed circuit will kind of work, it is likely to be unreliable, especially if you try to control more than one actuator this way.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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