Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!
- Thread starter Brookwood
- Start date
For the most part this topic hasn't been too intense with me asking tons of questions and panicked to get replies. I've been searching and reading stuff on this forum just about every night to be better informed. It has been so helpful.
My more intense post has been for the solar panel design. It seems like every one of those has its own unique quirks and character. I depended on replies, and
JasonLion, Bama Rambler, dayhiker, jblizzle, chumbley, and pooladdict were all very helpful. You can read the entire post here: solar-plumbing-confusion-questions-t43805.html There you will find questions and great answers about tapping into the return line, panel connections, diagrams, etc.
I am using 4 Fafco Solar Bears 4x20. They are the above ground model that has the in and out on the same side. With the diverter valve opened then they can be plumbed parallel like you see here.
So here are some pics of the final product. I just have one more plumbing connection to make, and I also need to mount the whole thing to the roof so it doesn't fly away. I drilled a small hole through each side of the frame at each end to run a cable through, and I'm still thinking of the best way to bolt it down. I'm sure when I first turn it on I will run wildly upstairs to see if I have any leaks.
[attachment=2:30cxqrg8]Panels 7.JPG[/attachment:30cxqrg8]
[attachment=1:30cxqrg8]Panels 6.JPG[/attachment:30cxqrg8]
[attachment=0:30cxqrg8]Panels 5.JPG[/attachment:30cxqrg8]
My more intense post has been for the solar panel design. It seems like every one of those has its own unique quirks and character. I depended on replies, and
JasonLion, Bama Rambler, dayhiker, jblizzle, chumbley, and pooladdict were all very helpful. You can read the entire post here: solar-plumbing-confusion-questions-t43805.html There you will find questions and great answers about tapping into the return line, panel connections, diagrams, etc. I am using 4 Fafco Solar Bears 4x20. They are the above ground model that has the in and out on the same side. With the diverter valve opened then they can be plumbed parallel like you see here.
So here are some pics of the final product. I just have one more plumbing connection to make, and I also need to mount the whole thing to the roof so it doesn't fly away. I drilled a small hole through each side of the frame at each end to run a cable through, and I'm still thinking of the best way to bolt it down. I'm sure when I first turn it on I will run wildly upstairs to see if I have any leaks.
[attachment=2:30cxqrg8]Panels 7.JPG[/attachment:30cxqrg8]
[attachment=1:30cxqrg8]Panels 6.JPG[/attachment:30cxqrg8]
[attachment=0:30cxqrg8]Panels 5.JPG[/attachment:30cxqrg8]
Attachments
I set my own pavers in a few years ago, and when I did it, I laid them out on a bed of 4" pea gravel and 2" of sand on the top. After I laid the pavers, I threw sand on the top and then ran over them with a plate compactor. The point of this is to compact the pavers down into the substrate and to vibrate the sand between the pavers. This ended up giving a very solid and permanent paver deck. Are your paver guys going to run a plate compactor on them?
I'm not sure about the final steps but I can ask. They first put down crushed gravel and used a compactor to set pack it down. Polymeric sand will go in as joint fill. I hear that stuff is great. Sounds like it bonds and doesn't come out.
Yeah, the sand is really amazing. It basically keeps the pavers together but without making them impermeable to water. They also allow the pavers to adjust to ground movement without cracking like concrete. It's old tech, but seems to give a very permanent and attractive surface. Make sure they do a final plate compaction with the sand fill, as this will help to solidify the paver surface and fix any issues in terms of differences in the height of pavers.
The PB has been finalizing 2 other jobs to time those and mine for plaster at the same time. He brings in a crew from Atlanta, 2 hours away. Yesterday they did a 40k gallon pool, stayed the night in a hotel, did a small one early this morning and mine at about 11:00. I imagine he has to pay them for the commute, etc. and wanted them to do it all in one trip. Honestly, as he has talked about the other jobs he was doing I could sort of tell he was delaying my job/dragging it out to match the time frame of the other jobs. At this point I can't change it and I'm excited we now have plaster. The rain held off, it was a nice overcast day, and they seemed to do a good job. When they cleaned up they were very precise, cleaned their trowels well, and sprayed them with oil. That to me is a sign of someone who cares about details.
When they arrived I asked the crew leader/company owner (Brothers Pool Plaster) some of the crucial questions that I discovered here from researching
I was respectful and he was straight forward with his answers. I used these tips to put together my questions:
ten-guidelines-for-quality-pool-plaster-t42957.html
still-unable-to-get-rid-of-some-white-spots-on-diamond-brite-t40526.html
My biggest concerns were if they used calcium chloride - answer "only in winter," if they acid wash - answer "only if I want" which I didn't, and if they add water to plaster surface - answer - "no, just to clean and wet the trowel." He said they would put a rag on the end of the hose and I left it at that. Any more and I would have confused myself.
They mixed Diamond Brite and white cement for the scratch coat, then full DB for the second coat. I was able to get a sample to keep just because it seemed like a good idea and I read here to do it.
Now the real work starts for me. I've got my NPC start up card in hand http://www.npconline.org/index.php?opti ... icle&id=85 , 6 gallons of muratic acid to knock down the Ph as it rises, a new Wall Whale brush, 50 lbs of pucks, and Jack's Magic Magenta. We've got 2 hoses filling the pool and just about zero water pressure in the house. It's about half full and tomorrow I'll test a sample of the fill water from the hose. Just before it is full I plan to acid scrub the inside of my skimmer bowl, prime the pump and start with a quick backwash to clean out the nasty before circulating. It has been a little strange not hearing the pool pump for so long and it was nice to see the power bill a little less because of it.
I have always wondered the real measure of how many gallons are in this strange shape pool. Now is the time to know for sure and I took a picture of the water meter reading before starting to fill. I'll just need to convert CCF to gallons which is easy to do online. I'm waiting 2 days to add pucks, and a month before salt. I feel so informed and empowered. I'm officially a freak because of this site!
Thanks to everyone who takes the time to answer both the simple and complex questions that come up. Thanks to all those who aren't afraid to ask those questions because this might be pretty boring with just the answers.
Finally, I wish my pool job was done. They still need to add the polymeric sand, final wire the sump pump and J box, move some dirt and clean up. But I have water!
Let me know if I'm missing something.
[attachment=2:357v57x7]Plaster 1.JPG[/attachment:357v57x7]
[attachment=1:357v57x7]Plaster 2.JPG[/attachment:357v57x7]
[attachment=0:357v57x7]Plaster 3.JPG[/attachment:357v57x7]
When they arrived I asked the crew leader/company owner (Brothers Pool Plaster) some of the crucial questions that I discovered here from researching
I was respectful and he was straight forward with his answers. I used these tips to put together my questions: ten-guidelines-for-quality-pool-plaster-t42957.html
still-unable-to-get-rid-of-some-white-spots-on-diamond-brite-t40526.html
My biggest concerns were if they used calcium chloride - answer "only in winter," if they acid wash - answer "only if I want" which I didn't, and if they add water to plaster surface - answer - "no, just to clean and wet the trowel." He said they would put a rag on the end of the hose and I left it at that. Any more and I would have confused myself.
They mixed Diamond Brite and white cement for the scratch coat, then full DB for the second coat. I was able to get a sample to keep just because it seemed like a good idea and I read here to do it.
Now the real work starts for me. I've got my NPC start up card in hand http://www.npconline.org/index.php?opti ... icle&id=85 , 6 gallons of muratic acid to knock down the Ph as it rises, a new Wall Whale brush, 50 lbs of pucks, and Jack's Magic Magenta. We've got 2 hoses filling the pool and just about zero water pressure in the house. It's about half full and tomorrow I'll test a sample of the fill water from the hose. Just before it is full I plan to acid scrub the inside of my skimmer bowl, prime the pump and start with a quick backwash to clean out the nasty before circulating. It has been a little strange not hearing the pool pump for so long and it was nice to see the power bill a little less because of it.
I have always wondered the real measure of how many gallons are in this strange shape pool. Now is the time to know for sure and I took a picture of the water meter reading before starting to fill. I'll just need to convert CCF to gallons which is easy to do online. I'm waiting 2 days to add pucks, and a month before salt. I feel so informed and empowered. I'm officially a freak because of this site!
Thanks to everyone who takes the time to answer both the simple and complex questions that come up. Thanks to all those who aren't afraid to ask those questions because this might be pretty boring with just the answers.
Finally, I wish my pool job was done. They still need to add the polymeric sand, final wire the sump pump and J box, move some dirt and clean up. But I have water!
Let me know if I'm missing something.
[attachment=2:357v57x7]Plaster 1.JPG[/attachment:357v57x7]
[attachment=1:357v57x7]Plaster 2.JPG[/attachment:357v57x7]
[attachment=0:357v57x7]Plaster 3.JPG[/attachment:357v57x7]
Attachments
I took the reading at the water meter to determine how many gallons my pool holds before the plaster crew arrived. They sprayed the wall of the house, dumpster, and driveway so the plaster dust wouldn't stick when they were filling the hopper. They used water to make the mix, then more when they cleaned up and washed the walls and driveway down. I decided to take another reading after that just before filling the pool so that my numbers wouldn't include what they used. I was surprised to find they used 375 gallons in that short time 
I did get my ultimate reading and it turns out my pool holds 13,500 gallons, minus a few showers and flushes as required by the Department of Homestead and Hygiene. Ha. I am excited to know the true number as it was always a guess when using The Pool Calculator, adding chemicals, etc. In case you are wondering the reading from the meter = 1812.34 cubic feet of water. Now I know how to read my water bill!
It took 21 hours for the pool to fill. Not bad. It was good to use 2 hoses to speed the process.
Another great idea was to backwash first before doing anything else. The water in the filter and lines was pretty bad and I'm glad I didn't send it into the pool. I did prime the pump first. My $1300 electrical upgrade worked flawlessly. I flipped the new main GFCI breaker and the ones at the new panel and it was a go. The pool light hasn't worked in many years so that is nice to now have.
I tested several times today and added about a gallon of acid so far. I'll post those test results tomorrow. I also brushed twice and the plaster dust is insane. 1 backwash so far and probably another one before bed. Pump running 24/7 until most of it is gone. I've read to wait until you see a pressure increase of 10 before backwashing but at about 8 my water isn't moving with much force. I'd rather backwash a little more often and have good water movement. I also tried just using the main drain with the skimmer off but changed my mind. We have a lot of trees and stuff was blowing in and sinking to the bottom. I can't handle that if I can't vac normally for a month.
I did get my ultimate reading and it turns out my pool holds 13,500 gallons, minus a few showers and flushes as required by the Department of Homestead and Hygiene. Ha. I am excited to know the true number as it was always a guess when using The Pool Calculator, adding chemicals, etc. In case you are wondering the reading from the meter = 1812.34 cubic feet of water. Now I know how to read my water bill!
It took 21 hours for the pool to fill. Not bad. It was good to use 2 hoses to speed the process.
Another great idea was to backwash first before doing anything else. The water in the filter and lines was pretty bad and I'm glad I didn't send it into the pool. I did prime the pump first. My $1300 electrical upgrade worked flawlessly. I flipped the new main GFCI breaker and the ones at the new panel and it was a go. The pool light hasn't worked in many years so that is nice to now have.
I tested several times today and added about a gallon of acid so far. I'll post those test results tomorrow. I also brushed twice and the plaster dust is insane. 1 backwash so far and probably another one before bed. Pump running 24/7 until most of it is gone. I've read to wait until you see a pressure increase of 10 before backwashing but at about 8 my water isn't moving with much force. I'd rather backwash a little more often and have good water movement. I also tried just using the main drain with the skimmer off but changed my mind. We have a lot of trees and stuff was blowing in and sinking to the bottom. I can't handle that if I can't vac normally for a month.
Sounds like a very succesful, well-planned remodel.....the pics are great!
The forum now has a guideline that makes quite a bit mores sense....backwash when the psi increases by 25% over clean psi.
Lots of brushing, dust, and acid (2 1/2 gal in 3 days). Everything seems pretty normal. I think I'm going to run just the main drain for an hour after brushing and then main and skimmer after that to try and filter more dust.
I tested the first water through the solar panels and everything looked good. It was late in the afternoon and just a test so no temp increase. One threaded adapter could use more teflon tape but otherwise no leaks noticed. The only bummer of the whole thing is that I sent the water to the panels at a 4 psi increase and my return jets had weak flow. When I run solar daily I will increase the psi to 5 to 7 as the Fafco manual says, or whatever it takes to have the panels cool to the touch. I imagine the flow will be even less. I have a 1 hp pump. Water will probably circulate fine but have a harder time getting debris to the skimmer. So, I guess the future solution is bigger pump which I don't want to do, an electronic solar controller which would be fun, or an automated cleaner. Of the 3, I think the cleaner would be best all around. Our previous plaster was black and you couldn't see the debris like you can now. :blah:
Here are some test results:
Fill Water
FC 1.0
Ph 7.5
TA 80
CH 170
Day 1 - Friday 6/1 Pool full and pump on
FC .5
Ph 8.2 (brought down right away)
TA 70
CH 140
Day 2
FC .5
Ph 7.2
TA 60
CH 170
Day 3 - added 2 pucks
FC 1.0
Ph 7.2
TA 60
CH 170
Using Traditional Start-up method. I've been adding acid to keep Ph at 7.2. Have not vacuumed or used other chemicals to change TA, CH, CYA. Not sure if/how much CYA to add since it will creep up with the pucks.
I tested the first water through the solar panels and everything looked good. It was late in the afternoon and just a test so no temp increase. One threaded adapter could use more teflon tape but otherwise no leaks noticed. The only bummer of the whole thing is that I sent the water to the panels at a 4 psi increase and my return jets had weak flow. When I run solar daily I will increase the psi to 5 to 7 as the Fafco manual says, or whatever it takes to have the panels cool to the touch. I imagine the flow will be even less. I have a 1 hp pump. Water will probably circulate fine but have a harder time getting debris to the skimmer. So, I guess the future solution is bigger pump which I don't want to do, an electronic solar controller which would be fun, or an automated cleaner. Of the 3, I think the cleaner would be best all around. Our previous plaster was black and you couldn't see the debris like you can now. :blah:
Here are some test results:
Fill Water
FC 1.0
Ph 7.5
TA 80
CH 170
Day 1 - Friday 6/1 Pool full and pump on
FC .5
Ph 8.2 (brought down right away)
TA 70
CH 140
Day 2
FC .5
Ph 7.2
TA 60
CH 170
Day 3 - added 2 pucks
FC 1.0
Ph 7.2
TA 60
CH 170
Using Traditional Start-up method. I've been adding acid to keep Ph at 7.2. Have not vacuumed or used other chemicals to change TA, CH, CYA. Not sure if/how much CYA to add since it will creep up with the pucks.
Keep track of how many pucks you are adding, and you will have a pretty good idea of where your cya is/going. Assuming 8oz pucks, that would mean each puck raises cya by 2.5 ppm for your 13500 gallon pool (per poolcalculator.com), it also raises the FC by 4.1 ppm.
dahncke
0
Glock
0
Blowout
Well-known member
The last couple of weeks have been pretty crazy finishing things up. This has been a lot of work no doubt. A good bit was my own fault as I wanted to do some of the projects myself.
First, I put tons of time into testing the new water and brushing the plaster. Brushed 2x a day for the first week, then 1x a day until day 30, now 1x a week. I was glad that the majority of plaster dust was gone after a week. I will say that there is no pool service that would do that much work, that well, except for the dedicated homeowner. The same goes for catching the Ph at the right time before it got too high. It never went over 8 but it would have if I didn't splash it down with acid. I also ran the pump 24/7 for the first 30 days. I'm now in the process of converting back to salt.
I was able to finish the flagstone area. I'm not a pro and leveling it was tough as I had to take out a good bit of dirt. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. The only down side is that we used pea gravel and dirt as fill for the joints. We had plenty of good stone that came from the original decking so we didn't have to buy any. We even used the smaller left over pieces to make a small pathway where there had been only pea gravel.
I bought 4 yards of new gravel, the larger river rock, to zero-scape some areas that have never been dealt with well. This is much better than pea gravel and it forced me to clear and open up another area around the side of the house that had been a mess. I rolled it in on a dolly by the tub full. I dumped and my wife evened it out. We even laid newspaper as a base in some of the areas that had weed problems. Some say it is a good way to kill and prevent.
The solar panels have been amazing. The hottest pool temp so far was 92. That sounds hot, but it really is nice, especially for night swimming. After a recent rain the kids got in the next day and said the water was chilly - at 85! It's back up to 90. This pool only gets 2 hours of direct sun a day, and the panels, which get much more sun, have made all the difference. The water coming out of the jets is nice and hot. It feels like free money pouring into the pool.
I spent a good bit of time over in Chemistry 201, reading what others were doing and had done with new plaster. Then lots of time in the Pool Cleaners section before deciding to buy the Blue Diamond robot. You can find my overview of it by searching My Blue Diamond.
[attachment=2:2z0q0768]Entry.JPG[/attachment:2z0q0768]
[attachment=1:2z0q0768]Pool 1.JPG[/attachment:2z0q0768]
[attachment=0:2z0q0768]Pool 4.JPG[/attachment:2z0q0768]
First, I put tons of time into testing the new water and brushing the plaster. Brushed 2x a day for the first week, then 1x a day until day 30, now 1x a week. I was glad that the majority of plaster dust was gone after a week. I will say that there is no pool service that would do that much work, that well, except for the dedicated homeowner. The same goes for catching the Ph at the right time before it got too high. It never went over 8 but it would have if I didn't splash it down with acid. I also ran the pump 24/7 for the first 30 days. I'm now in the process of converting back to salt.
I was able to finish the flagstone area. I'm not a pro and leveling it was tough as I had to take out a good bit of dirt. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. The only down side is that we used pea gravel and dirt as fill for the joints. We had plenty of good stone that came from the original decking so we didn't have to buy any. We even used the smaller left over pieces to make a small pathway where there had been only pea gravel.
I bought 4 yards of new gravel, the larger river rock, to zero-scape some areas that have never been dealt with well. This is much better than pea gravel and it forced me to clear and open up another area around the side of the house that had been a mess. I rolled it in on a dolly by the tub full. I dumped and my wife evened it out. We even laid newspaper as a base in some of the areas that had weed problems. Some say it is a good way to kill and prevent.
The solar panels have been amazing. The hottest pool temp so far was 92. That sounds hot, but it really is nice, especially for night swimming. After a recent rain the kids got in the next day and said the water was chilly - at 85! It's back up to 90. This pool only gets 2 hours of direct sun a day, and the panels, which get much more sun, have made all the difference. The water coming out of the jets is nice and hot. It feels like free money pouring into the pool.
I spent a good bit of time over in Chemistry 201, reading what others were doing and had done with new plaster. Then lots of time in the Pool Cleaners section before deciding to buy the Blue Diamond robot. You can find my overview of it by searching My Blue Diamond.
[attachment=2:2z0q0768]Entry.JPG[/attachment:2z0q0768]
[attachment=1:2z0q0768]Pool 1.JPG[/attachment:2z0q0768]
[attachment=0:2z0q0768]Pool 4.JPG[/attachment:2z0q0768]
