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Thread: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

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    Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    I've been lurking on this site for over 2 years and it is awesome. I finally have something to post and I'm looking forward to sharing my experience. I'm sure we will all learn something. Please let me know if anything sounds crazy. I'll post pictures along the way.

    My 30 year old IG gunite pool is way overdue for a redo and I'm taking the plunge. I got my first quote last October and shelved it until now. In the last 3 weeks I had 3 other PBs come out and the first one back again. I am going with the first one for a number of reasons but primarily because it looks like he will do more work for the best price, and do it well. He has been doing it for a long time, the references I called all said good things, and he didn't seem to want to up-charge me on every question that I had.

    The company is Blue Haven and the man I'm trusting my fate with is Gary. I signed the contract and we start in a week.

    Here is what he contracted to do:

    Pool -
    Prep surface by chipping out bad spots and checking for hollow areas.
    Acid wash and bond coat
    Re-plaster Diamond Brite Super Blue
    Remove old tile and replace with one row of our choice 6" from National Pool Tile
    Check for loose/broken pipes
    Replace skimmer lid and ring
    Add VGB main drain cover
    Install new 500W light

    Surround:
    Demo existing flagstone deck
    Remove surrounding fence (the yard will still have gate access)
    Remove ladder and handrail (pool has shallow end steps, deep end seat, and a deep end standing ledge)
    Paver coping
    700 sq ft Belgard pavers for pool surround and walkway, base material and polymeric sand
    Walkway sump pump and drains to address water issues.
    2 other area drains
    Route return lines for me to install solar panels
    Fill and pave small sitting area to level of existing deck
    2 new sets of decking steps
    Dumpster for debris

    $19,700:
    $1970 down
    $6500 at demo
    $8000 at paver delivery
    $3230 at plaster prep
    30 days to do the job


    Other info:
    The plaster is in bad shape with numerous places pitting to the gunite, some as big around as a coaster or small plate. Some show a brownish color underneath, others grey.

    I replaced sand filter, pump, and added SWG 2 years ago.
    Lines are all 1 inch
    Depth is 3' to 5 '
    Perimeter 86
    Area sq ft 400
    I thought 16k gallons but he says about 11K
    Light doesn't work, GFI at the panel doesn't work and I think I should replace the panel. I will talk with his electrician. Not much has been said about bonding.

    Can anybody keep my dog for a month?
    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Welcome to tfp, Brookwood

    Please take lots of pictures!
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Wow! You will have a whole new pool and yard....what a renovation! Take some "before" pics so we can see where you're starting.

    Post a pic of that dog...if he chases tennis balls and/or cats, I can probably use him.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    X 2 on pics before and after
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Welcome to the forum

    We're standing by:
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Before pics.
    Meeting PB tomorrow to decide which pavers.

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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    [attachment=2:dd85y896]4.JPG[/attachment:dd85y896]
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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Can't figure out how to upload more than 3 pics per post without using Photo Bucket or something

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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Plaster damage
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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

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    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Nice site, it's like a little grotto.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    We made our paver decision - Belgard Urbana, color River Street Blend
    Coping pavers will be Bergerac, Carriage House Blend.
    Probably not traditional for coping. The only issue is that the edge isn't bull-nosed. I can live with that.

    Today I ordered the solar panels - four 4x20 Fafco SunSaver Solar Bear Ultra SKU# FAF975-3. They were on sale for $212 each with free shipping from http://www.nationalpoolwholesalers.com

    Buying Fafco was confusing for me. I read tons of threads here but it was still a pain. I ended up calling the distributor and Fafco many times to ask all of my questions. What I finally figured out is that if you want the true 4x20, and not two 2x20, then you have to look online under the Above Ground Pool category. I'm IG and if you just look there then you wont find 4x20. I didn't want the SunGrabber, just the Solar Bears.

    Also confusing is the fact that they just changed part numbers. The new one is FAF975-3, and the old is FAF960. Fafco said they are the same exact panel but the 960 comes with 1 coupler, 2 clamps and two 6" pieces of flex hose. The 975-3 has a manual bypass, the 960 has an internal spring bypass. Since I'm using a 3 way diverter I don't see this as an issue. I guess if you had one panel on the ground without a 3 way then that is how you would control the flow. Don't quote me on that.

    Some 960 are still in stock but that model number is discontinued. They said too many people didn't need the flex hose and just wanted the panels because they were going to use PVC anyway. They said the panels were fine to use for IG and roof mount, but need to be run parallel not serial. Fortunately I already knew what that meant from hanging out here. So, mine are just the panels.

    The Fafco rep said that for the couplers I could use 2" diameter radiator hose at 3 1/2" long. And, running parallel, that I would need 6 of them - panels 1 & 2 need 2, from panels 2 to 3 I need 2, and from panels 3 to 4 I need 2. Plus 12 clamps - one for each side of the coupler.
    Does this sound about right?

    There is a kit that is FAF961 that comes with 1 coupler and 2 clamps for over $20. I would need 6 of those and I can't see spending that much for hose and clamps. I'd rather put a new blade in my razor knife and go to the auto supply place.

    Finally, since mine is a flat roof install it doesn't look like it will drain. I may need to disassemble for winter. That will only blow after year 2.

    Please let me know if you have any insight into what I've said. This is what I found out but I could be wrong on something.
    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Quick update
    Panels arrived. Those boxes are surprisingly big. Makes you appreciate free shipping. When I ordered them the rep said that they were the economy pack - just the panel. It says that on the box but it also says each box includes mounting hardware, roof straps, 90 degree elbows, and end caps. The accessory bag in the box is part #09010 and even had 20 repair plugs. I'm happy. I have decided to build a roof rack for my flat install so the panels don't sit on the gravel asphalt roof. The straps will go to good use with that.

    I ordered the 3 way valve today for about $55 shipped. The only local shop that had it in stock wanted $100. Our biggest chain store, Leslie's, would have had to order it for $85. I like $55.

    Dumpster arrived today. I spent the late afternoon prepping some of the area, removing ivy from stone wall, and moving yard furniture. Removed a 30 year old stump in about 20 minutes. Time loosens all things. We decided to keep most of the flagstone and lay it in the pea gravel area adjacent to the walkway coming in from the driveway. I'm no mason so we will see how it goes. I want to do it without killing myself. I am wondering what other options there are besides grouting. Thinking about a sand base and then filling with the pea gravel. I am guessing that the joint sizes are too big for polymeric sand but I have no clue. I'd be happy to hear thoughts and options.
    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Take more pics
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Demo started Thursday, April 12th. Here are some pictures of what 10 guys can do in a day. The PB was between some builds and was able to spare more workers than normal. Now the fun starts!

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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Flagstone was set aside for me to place in this area later. I will wait until pavers are down so that I lay on the same level. I'll need some time to prep the stone and remove old grout. I don't think it is enough to cover the area and I may need to order a pallet.

    So far I'm impressed with the workers. I did have to say they couldn't park on the lawn, but this is Alabama, and parking on the grass is kind of second nature

    I do believe in being nice and respectful to workers. It goes a long way if you need something extra or a helping hand. Once you make someone mad then they don't want to go out of their way for you. The good thing about having them put the flagstone here is that it was closer than the dumpster

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    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    I need some electrical advice please. In the picture above of the pool equipment you'll see the old rusty panel that I think needs to be replaced. The GFCI doesn't work and it's a mess of wires.

    Here is what is currently connected to it:
    Hayward RS series Pump
    Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG
    Jandy Lite2 natural gas heater
    Regular pool light
    GE digital Timer 15132

    I had an electrician scheduled to come out, he sent his assistant who took some pics, and the electrician texted his quote:
    "Cost to install new panel and rewire all equipment to it while leaving existing 3 wire feeder is $400. Cost to run new 4 wire feeder, new panel and all connected is $675 including all materials and labor."

    The panel at the equipment is connected to another panel at the opposite end of the house - 77 feet between them. The total distance between them is accessible in the crawl space which is mostly very open, but you'd have to crawl about 1/4 of the way.

    I'm clueless about all of this, and I'm more clueless of what code requires. It sounds like I need to go with the new 4 wire run.
    What questions should I ask?
    How many breakers should the new panel have? It seems like he is just thinking everything on one.
    What size wire should he use?
    Does the price sound fair?

    It doesn't look like the equipment is bonded together. It is more than 5' from pool. Maybe I need someone else to take a look.

    Thanks for any advice. I don't want to have this not be right.
    13,500 gallon IG Diamond Brite Super Blue, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 300 lb Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward Swim Pure+ SWG, Four 4X20 Fafco Solar Bears, Jandy Lite2 NG Heater, Borates, Blue Diamond Robot, TF100 & Refills, Taylor SpeedStir

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Your remobuild is going nicely. Really interesting to see someone tackle this big project.

    His pricing seems reasonable but always a good idea to get at least two quotes. I am not electically qualified but I seem to remember a distinct advantage in 4-wire service but can't put it into words. Lot's of smart folks here who will respond withthe correct answer.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Inground Total Redo - Going For Broke!

    Looking great!

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