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Thread: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed?

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    Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed?

    Fixed one problem but another emerges.

    PSI on filter is just too high (32 psi). 25000 gal in-ground multi level pool with
    elevated spa and in-floor Paramount system. 3 hp pump.

    Had a problem with pump which has been "corrected"...don't know what caused it.

    Filter pressure had fallen to 0. Drain plugs replaced [actually just tightened?];
    cartridges cleaned; even removed pop-ups and cleaned (ugh)...but the pressure on the filter PSI gauge is too high, and, the pressure on the pop-ups is between 10-15 max, not the
    20 it should be.

    I had the gauges tested, they are ok.

    I though I might remove the cartridges and run the system to see if the filter cartridges
    were causing a problem that I couldn't see.

    I ran the system for what seemed like 45-60 seconds and the PSI jumped from
    25-32 up and down back and forth. I am still not convinced the system won't
    explode in my face. Should I have let it continue to "stablize" the pressure?

    Or am I barking up the wrong tree.

    Thank you, again.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Sounds like you're at least partially on teh right track. You can run the system without cartridges and you won't hurt anything unless you're pumping chunks. I'd let it run and see if the pressure stabilizes and if the pump has any air in it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Thank you! I'm on my way.....

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    1)Strange
    After what seemed like several minutes...
    and, "spurting" that I presume is air mixed with the water from the relief valve on the filter...
    Pressure stablized at 32 (too high) for about 45-60 seconds, but

    2)

    3) Main pop-ups don't elevate at all.

    4) When the Filter pressure is not 32-stable, it bounces from 28-32 or so, and it seems to
    oscillate in time with the "hum" of the motor. For 20-30 or so seconds.
    5) Prior to this, I had "check" the Jandy valve TO the pump and reassembled. It seemed to
    be different than before checking [the direction of the lid], but I can't find a connection.

    I can only guess something has broken loose???

    I somehow did something with the Jandy valve (but I really don't think so, nothing was evident
    before I removed the cartridges).

    I am completely lost now.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Sounds like something didn't get put back together correctly.

    If you can post some pics we may be able to give more guidance.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    LOL ... sorry your computer glitches cracked me up

    This sounds nearly identical to another current post but with a Caretaker system.

    Do you have a valve to switch to a wall return instead of the floor system? If the pressure is reasonable on the wall and you have good flow then that would confirm that the pump/filter are working properly and that the problem lies in the floor system.

    On the Caretaker system there is a screen at the manifold that can become clogged resulting in high pressure and no pop-ups ... does your system have something like that?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Well, aparently I have an issue with the "actuator" or the way I put it all back together.

    The oscillating-pressure coincides with a "spurting" noice audible from the "actuator"
    atop the valve I just "checked" and put back together. No visible water.

    It is the "actuator' visible in front of the pump in Attachment 2.

    Boy, this is...complicated.

    I am open to suggestions.

    [attachment=1:v1piaw5p]popup.JPG[/attachment:v1piaw5p]
    [attachment=2:v1piaw5p]Actuator.JPG[/attachment:v1piaw5p]
    [attachment=0:v1piaw5p]Filter and pump.JPG[/attachment:v1piaw5p]
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    jblauert HI! Thank you for chuckling!!

    I posted before I read your info. I am not sure exactly what you are asking.

    I can select spa; floor or skimmer with "valves". I have the Electronic controls: Pool; Spa; Spa
    drain, and spa fill. There is a "mesh screen" inside the filter that I cleaned before putting this
    together without the cartridges installed. The "pulsating" pressure is new. It does seem to
    have occurred right after I disassembled and reassembled the Valve & actuator just before the
    pump [labeled Spa suction in Attachment 2]. I ususally don't cause more problems tham
    existed when I started. This one has gone haywire.

    If it matters, my garage door openers just stopped working, too (the remotes). gremlins?

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    On the Caretaker system there is a screen at the manifold that can become clogged resulting in high pressure and no pop-ups ... does your system have something like that?

    I don't know what a "manifold" is (in my pool system). I won't even try to ask.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Pop ups are back. I took the two controller ports apart. One had a leaf in one of the
    "ports". The actuator valve is still spurting. It is a never lube {lifetime warranty}...

    I'll make that phone call. There still just seems to be to much pressure at the filter.
    The cartridges are out and the pressure is still 32 ..oscillating a bit with the actuator???

    The valve top at the actuator is actually leaking from the top of the valve (not the actuator)
    so I presume that constitutes an air leak.

    I will check again when I get the replacement Jandy valve.

    I am still open to suggestions. This baffles me.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Last one, then I need to go take care of other stuff.

    When I rotate the Spa suction valve, the "spurting" and leak stops. That makes
    no sense to me because the water is (I believe) coming from the top of the
    valve lid so I don't understand why rotating the valve would stop the leak.

    I am sure there is a logical reason, though.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Back to basics...
    I'm pretty stupid about those valves, and popup systems and such, but I'm pretty sure that if the pressure is high (and it is) it is due to a pressure-side restriction. Something beyond the pump is blocking some/a lot of the flow. If it is not the filter, then look beyond that.
    The pulsing would seem to be an additional issue, possibly from starving the system on the suction side.
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    I agree not sure how a blockage on the suction side (like the actuator by the pump) can be causing high pressure. Seems like something is wrong on the return side.

    What options do you have for the return as far as valving? (Like under the towel in your 3rd picture ... maybe add a picture of that end of the pad).
    If you switch to spa mode does the pressure come down?

    The manifold I was talking about is a dome near ground level usually close to the pool which has gears in it that rotate to the different floor pop-up zones. There is a debris screen on the top as a last defense before the gears that can be clogged ... (at least that is how the Caretaker worked).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    It seems like you have a lot of things going on at once. For troubleshooting purposes I would suggest putting the filters back in and put all your equipmemt back to how it normaly runs. Then start troubleshooting from there. Eliminate one component at a time starting with the components you adjusted.
    11,872 Gallon IG Shotcrete play pool
    Blue Granite Pebble Sheen finish
    Hayward SwimClear c4025, Navigator & Tristar 1.75hp pump
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  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Thank you. I will do that. I do need to address the spurting leaking Valve.[attachment=2:1olb45pf]Spurting leaking Actuator valve.jpg[/attachment:1olb45pf][attachment=1:1olb45pf]Under towel.jpg[/attachment:1olb45pf][attachment=0:1olb45pf]Under towel 2.jpg[/attachment:1olb45pf]
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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Turn the valve in the bottom pic (Under towel 2) so that all the water goes to the spa and none to the cleaner. Does the pressure change and the pulsating go away?
    15,600 Gallon, 16' x 32' In-Ground Vinyl Pool
    Pentair VS 3050 pump, Quad DE 60 filter and SunTouch controller
    8 gallon Liquidator, Aquatherm EcoSun Solar Panels, 2 wheel ThePoolCleaner

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Totally different item to consider after this is all fixed: The pipe from the pump to the filter is too long - see the pic labeled Spurting leaking Actuator valve - it looks like you need to cut out about 1" from it as it's bending the pipe coming out of the pump body - that's going to lead to a leak someday.
    15,600 Gallon, 16' x 32' In-Ground Vinyl Pool
    Pentair VS 3050 pump, Quad DE 60 filter and SunTouch controller
    8 gallon Liquidator, Aquatherm EcoSun Solar Panels, 2 wheel ThePoolCleaner

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Quote Originally Posted by lweljwel
    I do need to address the spurting leaking Valve
    I agree, fix the suction side valve first, though this is unlikely the cause of your high pressure - that's got to be on the pressure side of the system.

    Take the valve actuator off (it's the beige motorized thing on top of the valve itself). Open up the valve and replace all of the seals - there are some seals on the control shaft of the valve that you should replace too. Then test the system before you put the actuator back on. Remember to rotate the valve fully both ways a few times while the pump is running to make sure it doesn't leak at any point of the rotation.

    Now move on down the system. You know it's not the filter since you removed the filters and the pressure stayed high. Try rotating the return valve to spa only as I suggest din my other post. If the problem goes away it's on the cleaner side in which case check the cleaner's distribution box/octopus looking thing near the pool as previously described by jblauert.

    Good luck and let us know!
    15,600 Gallon, 16' x 32' In-Ground Vinyl Pool
    Pentair VS 3050 pump, Quad DE 60 filter and SunTouch controller
    8 gallon Liquidator, Aquatherm EcoSun Solar Panels, 2 wheel ThePoolCleaner

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    Have we reached the "God bless y'all" yet?

    I just spoke with Jandy who is sending me several o-rings. He said
    just taking them apart to check for a problem creates a problem.
    They are all the "never lube" life time warranty valves.

    On the subject of the "plumbing". Although I have owned the home since built in
    1996, it was a second home for some time and things happened I wasn't really
    aware of [including repairs ?? by now ex-husband]...

    The 3-hp pump sticks off the end of the pad..but it is secure. I have always wondered if that
    was as it should be. And, the "too long pipe" you refer to. It connects to the "strangely positioned"
    3-hp pump. I actually love working on the system. Paramount has been incredible explaining the
    pop-up system...size of the jets, etc. etc. My GUT tells me there is a blockage or ???.

    Something caused the pump basket to melt a few weeks ago. And the timing on the pop-ups is longer than
    it should be. When it is right, it is really right. Apparently, wrong is really wrong.

    Again, THANK YOU! for the help. I will follow your suggestions AND keep you posted.


  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Can I run Cartridge Filter with the 4 cartridges removed

    TO CARLSCAN26: I rotated the "under the towel" valve. The spa started to empty quite fast. The "spurting' did not stop.

    The spurting is so odd. It corresponds exactly with the "oscillating" noise of the pump. One other very odd thing.

    I rotated the "floor" valve and the pressure, although still "bobbing" dropped to at times 10-15 to 28-30??? Odd.

    I have a "bladder" that attaches to the hose that I could use (I am told) to check for a clog if that would be a good idea.

    I will try anything you suggest. Oh, and...THANK YOU!

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