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Thread: curing shotcrete W. PICTURES. Now found CRACK

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    curing shotcrete W. PICTURES. Now found CRACK

    The pool was poured Thursday. Initially, the plan was that the builders will do the first watering. They finished later then expected, said the concrete was too wet to water, and I should water it Friday. I watered Friday morning and afternoon (it was extremely dry and windy). While watering Saturday, I noticed a few spots that are lighter/look "dry" compared to the rest of the pool (concentrated on the edges of the spa - seats and step, but a few spots in other places as well). Is this really bad? Also, what is the proper way to water?

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    smccull's Avatar
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    curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    You'll be fine this time of year - I sprayed ours down a couple times a day, but ours was poured in the heat of the texas summer - the wetting is to just slow down the curing - supposedly makes it stronger.


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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    The description and placement of the contrasting concrete makes me suspect that it is rebound. Rebound is concrete that has fallen off of applied surfaces or been trimmed. Some builders will use rebound to build out areas that need a little more concrete. It is not a good practice.

    Ideally, the concrete should be kept continuously moist by a fine spray, or mist, for the first 7 days. Intermittent wetting and drying can have an adverse effect on the concrete.

    http://www.pooleng.com/Use-of-Rebound-i ... av-62.aspx

    http://www.shotcrete.org/pdf_files/Spri ... DryMix.pdf

    did-your-pb-s-shotcrete-sub-reuse-the-shotcrete-rebound-t3643.html

    http://www.concrete.net.au/publications ... ring06.pdf

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    The description and placement of the contrasting concrete makes me suspect that it is rebound. Rebound is concrete that has fallen off of applied surfaces or been trimmed. Some builders will use rebound to build out areas that need a little more concrete. It is not a good practice.

    Ideally, the concrete should be kept continuously moist by a fine spray, or mist, for the first 7 days. Intermittent wetting and drying can have an adverse effect on the concrete.

    http://www.pooleng.com/Use-of-Rebound-i ... av-62.aspx

    http://www.shotcrete.org/pdf_files/Spri ... DryMix.pdf

    did-your-pb-s-shotcrete-sub-reuse-the-shotcrete-rebound-t3643.html

    http://www.concrete.net.au/publications ... ring06.pdf
    Yes, I think they have used some rebound. It looked like this was a typical practice for this crew.

    They just told me to water it with the hose twice a day. I am doing more than that today, but I do not see how continuous misting for a week will be feasible ...

    The PB does have a lifetime warranty on the shell, and they have been around for a long time ... you'd think they will know what they are doing.

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    put a sprinkler in the pool and let it run?

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by DBfan187
    put a sprinkler in the pool and let it run?
    Yeah, I tried that yesterday - it was more of a mess than help, but I can try tinkering with the thing again today. The pool is long and narrow, so ideally there would be 2 sprinklers. Looks like it might rain - that would be helpful...

    Now, should I bring up the rebound issue with the builder? What could they realistically do? Most of it is in the spa and steps, but it looks like there is also some in the floor.

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    It probably wouldn't hurt to ask the builder why the sections look different to see what they say. Without being able to inspect the concrete in person, it's hard to say for sure if it might be a problem.

    Check the rebound areas to see if they feel solid. If they feel weak or crumbly, then the areas definitely need to be fixed.

    If they feel solid, and the builder checks them and says that they are fine, at least you are on record about the issue. It probably wouldn't hurt to take pictures of the areas and make detailed drawings with measurements in case there are cracks in those areas.

    Regarding watering, most people water at least three times a day and that's usually fine. The ideal situation is to rig up some sort of misting system to keep the concrete moist at all times, but that's usually not practical. You might be able to rig up a soaker hose on a timer or some other such contraption.

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    Thank you, this is very helpful. I defintiely plan on taking pictures and getting this on . Also, there is one spot that looks like it is crumbling, but it is not where the color is different, but one of the other edges.

    I got finally got the sprinkler set up so it covers most of the pool, and I just need to water some in the corners. Is it eccential to get every inch of the pool moist?

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    The edges will always dry out faster than the other areas, so just the drying out doesn't necessarily indicate that rebound was used, or that there is any problem with that area.
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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    Well, it is not just edges - I am attaching a couple of pictures of spots that remain light when everything is wet.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by aniceone
    Well, it is not just edges - I am attaching a couple of pictures of spots that remain light when everything is wet.
    Looks good - beam a little rough but should be fine - looks like the Shotcrete (wet process) crew did a good job
    Chris
    www.shotcrete.us

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem? PICTURES ADDED

    That looks OK. I don't think that it from rebound. I'm not sure what caused the lighter areas, but it seems fine unless the areas feel weak.

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    The description and placement of the contrasting concrete makes me suspect that it is rebound. Rebound is concrete that has fallen off of applied surfaces or been trimmed. Some builders will use rebound to build out areas that need a little more concrete. It is not a good practice.

    Ideally, the concrete should be kept continuously moist by a fine spray, or mist, for the first 7 days. Intermittent wetting and drying can have an adverse effect on the concrete.

    http://www.pooleng.com/Use-of-Rebound-i ... av-62.aspx

    http://www.shotcrete.org/pdf_files/Spri ... DryMix.pdf

    did-your-pb-s-shotcrete-sub-reuse-the-shotcrete-rebound-t3643.html

    http://www.concrete.net.au/publications ... ring06.pdf
    Sorry did not read the whole thread - I agree never use rebound in the structure


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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem? PICTURES ADDED

    Thanks guys. I was seriously freaking out. Here is the picture of the entire pool - let me know what you think. It is 40X14, integrated spa, will have automatic cover.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem? PICTURES ADDED

    Quote Originally Posted by aniceone
    Thanks guys. I was seriously freaking out. Here is the picture of the entire pool - let me know what you think. It is 40X14, integrated spa, will have automatic cover.
    The Shotcrete Shell looks good - behind the skimmer looks good also - if your worried about rebound in the cove and floor ,sound it with a hammer -if it sound's hollow it is most likely REBOUND
    Chris
    www.shotcrete.us

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem? PICTURES ADDED

    Thanks! I may try the hammer thing (with a little light one!).
    Construction supervisor came this morning and said to stop watering, it's all good and they will be preparing for the masonry. Today is Wed, and the pouring was last Thur. Is this weird? And of course I JUST got the sprinkler tweaked so it can cover the entire pool!!

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    Re: curing shotcrete - is this a problem? PICTURES ADDED

    Quote Originally Posted by aniceone
    Thanks! I may try the hammer thing (with a little light one!).
    Construction supervisor came this morning and said to stop watering, it's all good and they will be preparing for the masonry. Today is Wed, and the pouring was last Thur. Is this weird? And of course I JUST got the sprinkler tweaked so it can cover the entire pool!!
    Usually the water cure is seven days - Concrete cures for 100 yrs - more water will not hurt it
    as to the Hammer use any size you want -you will not hurt it - sound the wall first then sound the cove and floor -they should sound solid
    take some pictures of the cove and floor
    CZ

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    Re: curing shotcrete W. PICTURES. Now found CRACK

    I was hoping I was seeing things, but no - there it is, a crack on the bottom to wall transition curve .
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: curing shotcrete W. PICTURES. Now found CRACK

    Using your sprinkler as a scale, it certainly looks like you might have a crack somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5-2m long. The pattern of surface evaporation in addition to the visible portion of the crack at least gives that impression. Repairing it at this point shouldn't be too difficult I wouldn't think. Mabey they can drill a hole and pump epoxy or a very thin cement slury into the crack? Did the shell dry evenly? Is the sun shining more on one side than another?
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    Re: curing shotcrete W. PICTURES. Now found CRACK

    Yes, that is what it looks like to me, about 1.5-2m, and maybe 2mm wide. I believe the side where the crack is gets a little more sun than the other side, but it really depends on the time of the day. It looks like list of the pool dried evenly, but not perfectly (although water on the bottom of pool and spa makes it hard to judge.
    The company said they will come over and check.... i am just concerned that the curve between the wall and the bottom is really not a nice place for a crack... and if it is cracking already - scary....

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