3 day deep freeze, how to protect the pool

[Pemolis]

So we're having a 3 to 4 day "deep freeze" where the temperatures going to be in the 20's or 10's for about 3 to 4 days straight. What steps should I be taking to protect the pool?

Quick summation. Variable speed pump, pool's open 24/7. Pump never shuts off (normally runs between 450 rpm to 1500 rpm. Have a booster for the pool robot plumbed in. Also have a pool heater. Salt water pool with a generator.

Should I consider starting up the pool heater to run for 3 or 4 days to protect the pool (My gas bill won't be happy but it'll cost less than trenching to fix a pipe).

Should I also consider running my pool robot 24/7 to prevent its pipe from freezing?

 

[JJ_Tex]

I'm in a similar boat as you. Do you have automation with freeze protection that will switch between pool and spa mode to protect all of your pipes when it is freezing?

I'm going to rely on my freeze protection. In the off chance we lose electricity for a period of time when it is really cold, my contingency plan is:
- turn off the breaker for the pump so it cannot come on
- open the drains/plugs on the pump/filter/heater
- open up all of the valves
- put a tarp over the equipment

They keep adjusting the forecast wildly, so who knows what it will really do.

 

[Pemolis]

I can open up the valves enough to ensure that water is flowing through all the equipment. The pool equipment itself is inside of a small hut we have for it. I may order a heat fan to blow warmish air in the hut for the next few days (again.. cheaper than replacing equipment).

Again have no clue if that's even useful. Past few years haven't had back to back below freezing consecutive days.

 

[JJ_Tex]

They also make take you plug into an outlet and wrap around the pipes. Since that is meant to be left outside unattended, there is probably less of a chance of burning down your she-shed.

 

[Pemolis]

Were expecting mid 20's to possibly 0 for about 5 days straight. I have a raypak heater attached to my pool.

Should I turn it on and leave it on for that 5 day period? If yes, leave it on 24/7 (no issue with that personally).

If not, should I turn it on to get the pool to something like.. 70/75 degrees then turn it off day 1 of the freeze?

I don't have a interest in closing the pool as this is.. a rare freeze deal.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Short answer is no, do not run your heater as they are not made to run when it is that cold.

Do you have freeze protection on your equipment? If not, I would manually turn on your pump and leave it on 24/7 until this is over.

Here is some reading that goes into things more depth, including the heater:

Preparing Pool for Cooler Months - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolGate]

Is it gas or a heat pump?

 

[Pemolis]

Natural Gas Raypak Heater. Its inside a pool shed (its vented, plumped correctly, etc, no fear or worry about carbon monoxide or fire if its run for a long time). The rest of the pool equipment is in that shed also (filter, pump, booster for pool vac etc).

Pool pump's a intelliflo variable speed with freeze protection that is run 24/7 (so it never turns off).

If I do turn the Heater on... what temperature should I be looking at hitting (it itself has a thermostat).
Edit: Ok I found the manual and oddly they say its ok.

MODERATE CLIMATE: Heater operation can continue during short-term cold spells. When temperatures are between 0°F (-18°C) and 32°F (0°C), flow (continuous pump operation) must be maintained.

They also note this:

Do not use the heater to maintain water temperatures just above freezing or for freeze protection. When heater is used during freezing weather, care must be taken to avoid freeze-ups. Continuous pump operation is a must. Additional protection may be
required. The heater is not warranted against freeze-ups.

Its more of a disclaimer that the heater's intention is to prevent freezing, but short term cold spells at the temperatures I'm looking at they are... apparently ok with.

 

[darin.brown]

yeah, was wondering the same.. Variable speed here.. was going to rely on the freeze protection that kicks in.. if I have a set of shelf bubblers that are typically off, should I turn those on to be safe?

 

[Donldson]

They also note this:

Do not use the heater to maintain water temperatures just above freezing or for freeze protection.

This is because the cold water causes condensation to form inside the combustion chamber which attracts all the acidic combustion byproducts and forms an acid on the heat exchanger. That's very bad for a cupro-nickel unit and absolute murder on a copper one. That's why the water temperature should be kept above 60 when using the heater.

 

[JJ_Tex]

What Donalson said, dont use your heater when it is that cold as it can shorten the life span.

I'm relying on my freeze protection, and it is running on my spa, and pool with bubblers. The one exception is my water feature. They are scuppers and I have intentionally not run them in months. My logic is that the water will have drained to below the ground both by the equipment pad and the raised wall to prevent freezing and create some air space in case it does freeze it will give the ice some expansion area. My alternative would be to turn it all and run it with the pool, and likely end up with ice on my wall.

I also have a contingency plan that if we lose power when it is really cold, I'm going to flip the breaker so the pump cant come back on, open up the filter, heater and pump drains, open all the valves, and place a tarp over the equipment pad to hopefully prevent any freeze damage.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

JJ - I posted an issue I am having with my Intellicenter freeze protection here... Intellicenter Users - Freeze Protection warning

Am curious if others have seen this.

For the OP, you have a shed for your equipment, you could put a heat lamp on in there and not worry about it. Leave pump running 24/7 if no automation for freeze protection.

--Jeff

 

[Pemolis]

So ordered a heater which came today for that purpose (keeping the shed relatively warm).

And my logic is if my pool heater breaks early... its cheaper to fix and repair than digging up half my yard to fix pipes. I am less concerned on that aspect. Have a bypass already plumbed in so worse comes to worse its a grand to replace, vs potentially 3 to 5 grand for the amount of concrete work needed to fix pipes (its all under concrete, not grass). In my mind, it is the lesser of two evils, but correct me if I am wrong.

And with the temperature, intention is to set the heater to 55/60 degrees and let it run and leave it on to bring the pool temperature up and maintain 60 degrees. Looking at the forecast the freeze is now looking to extend about a week, to hit as low as 8 degrees. I'm expecting my natural gas bill to skyrocket this month (I'm ok with that its cheaper than doing pool pipe repairs). My bill estimate for utilization of gas for the heater comes out to about a dollar an hour. Heating bill will run about 160 to 200 this month (typical natural gas bill is about 15 dollars).

 

[ejs873]

Good info. I am planning on leaving the ledge bubblers and the waterfall running the whole time. Does anyone know if the cleaners booster pump isn't running, is there any pipes that would have water sitting in them?

 

[mknauss]

Water should be running through the pressure side cleaner pump continuously. Unless you have an automated valve that isolates it.

 

[Pemolis]

The booster piping itself would have water in it but even if the booster is off, water is running through it. I would think that since the booster piping tends to be smaller in diameter and flexible, that they can take a little strain but would be applicable to becoming frozen also. Just my guess.

 

[bhg]

Checking in also as a brand new pool owner in TX faced with an unusual situation in month 2 of troublefreepool care. We'll be a few degrees warmer than you Dallas folks at least. I'm planning to just run the pump at a low speed throughout. Wasn't planning on turning the waterfall valve on since there should be plenty of air in the pipe for possible ice to expand to, but I guess it adds a bit more safety to turn it on.

That leaves the spa suction as only thing not circulating. Typically the valve into the pump is either 100% pool or 100% spa. Can I put it 75/25% to ensure water is moving on all the suction side pipes too?

 

[JohnT]

One important weakness in running the pump to prevent freezing is that if your power fails, you are going to be in panic mode. Your first and biggest risk for freeze damage is going to be above the waterline. Pump, filter, chlorinator, heater, water features etc. what’s underground and underwater has some protection from immediate freezing. It would be very useful to know how to drain/blow-out your equipment and unprotected plumbing and having a plan for that. Doing that may give you time for power to be restored or to figure out an alternative strategy

 

[Pemolis]

If the power goes out for any type of duration, most if not all pools in this area will be damaged as most don't winterize them to any degree.

 

[JJ_Tex]

If the power goes out for any type of duration, most if not all pools in this area will be damaged as most don't winterize them to any degree.

That is why you should have a contingency plan to drain the water from your pipes if you need. Since you said your equipment is in a shed, you will have a lot more wiggle room in terms of the rest of us.

I still argue you should not be running your heater, but if you do, just make sure it is on and stays on. If it cycles on and off is where you can have problems with the acidic condensation.