Just had new pool start up

[bdavis466]

Add the salt. Start with 1000ppm and target 3000 ppm.

The 1000ppm you have now is from a combination of fill water, chlorine, and acid (just about everything you add to the pool contains salt (chloride more accurately).

One gallon of acid will increase your salt readings by 50ppm... Almost the same as dumping in 5 pounds of salt

 

[pooldv]

That is the worst side effect of TFP! Other people's pools are gross! Your testing frenzy will let up dramatically soon and you will be on cruise control.

Yes, add 2000 ppm of salt to reach 3000 ppm. Give the salt a couple of days to fully dissolve and mix in. I would add salt and CYA at the same time. 2 ppm FC burn is nice.

 

[Titan7]

Add the salt. Start with 1000ppm and target 3000 ppm.

The 1000ppm you have now is from a combination of fill water, chlorine, and acid (just about everything you add to the pool contains salt (chloride more accurately).

One gallon of acid will increase your salt readings by 50ppm... Almost the same as dumping in 5 pounds of salt

I am currently at 1000PPM, did you mean start by adding salt that would be the equivalent of another 1000PPM? Or adding 2000 PPM of salt now to get to 3000PPM? Sorry, just want to be sure I am reading this correctly.

Last question: Pool school (in the salt water section) says to have CYA at 70-80 and TA between 60-80. Should I be at these levels before I add salt?

Currently my CYA is about 50 and TA is 110.

 

[bdavis466]

Salt is irrelevant based on other water parameters. 80ppm CYA is recommended to prevent excessive burnoff from UV thus requiring longer runtimes for the SWG (shortening its lifespan).

Add 2,000 ppm of salt, allow it to mix in really well for 24 hours and then fire up the SWG. You are shooting for 3,000ppm TOTAL.

You are actively working on lowering your TA and should be in the process of raising your CYA. Neither should prevent you from adding the salt. SWGs do add to the pH rise so with a higher TA, keep a watchful eye on the pH levels. For the immediate time being your pH will consistently be on the lower end (to lower the TA) which will prove to be beneficial.

 

[Titan7]

Thanks Brian!!!

 

[Titan7]

Just tested cya, still at 40ppm???? I should be at 70ppm at this point, why is this so difficult to bring up and test CYA??

. I believe i am following the test direction, now the label on my cya bottle was not put on perfectly level, one side of the label is lower than the other. I have utilized the controlled 50ppm sample, but my water still is stuck about 40ppm. Its been 2 weeks since i added more. Thoughts?? I guess i will add another 29oz to get it from 40 to 50. Man there must be a better way,lol.

Side note FC is only dropping .5 ppm in 24 hours? Odd? I am targeting 5ppm. When i get to 8 drops of the r-0871, there is still a very faint pink color, one more drop makes it clear, so thats 4.5ppm.

Also, noticed that the water in the tube will turn pinkish again if i let it sit for 5-10 mins. Normal?

Thx

 

[needsajet]

Sample drifting back to pink is normal and can be ignored.

O.5 ppm daily FC extinction is good. Enjoy It will vary depending on weather, bather load and/or other organic contamination.

CYA testing is a pain. You can try measuring equal amounts water and indicator with a pipette if you have one, or can get one from a pharmacy. Or a small graduated cylinder.

There's a few tips that have already been mentioned, but one of the best is testing the same mixed sample a few times until you're comfortable with it. You can pour the solution back from the viewing tube into the mixing vial, give it a shake, and re-test. You can do this as many times as you like.

Otherwise the usual: hold viewing tube from the top so light can get in to light up the particles, bright lighting but not so the bright light hits the dot (back to the sun, tube in body shadow, glance not stare, sample at waist height. I track my calculations as well, so I know what it should be, but this gets messed up if there's any draining for backwash or due to a lot of rainfall.

There is one thread somewhere here where an overflow was draining while an autofill was filling, but I'm sure that must be very rare.

 

[Titan7]

Thanks, i have covered all the tip but thx for reminding about starting. I will add more cya, but it bothers me when somthing is wrong for no reason. I guess the test wont lie, but where that cya went is beyond me.

 

[kimkats]

Titan, last year there were several that added enough CYA to push their levels up BUT nothing much happened We could not really figure out what happened as it was all over the place and only a couple reported it. We were GUESSING there was a bad batch. They went out and bought more from a different store and that did it for them.

 

[Titan7]

Thanks Kimkats! I spent some time last night on the forum reading CYA threads, I may be viewing the test incorrectly. I was adding solution until the black dot was 100% gone with me focused on the dot. From what I have read I should be looking for the dot to mostly disappear and not focus directly on the dot. I am going to do the test 50 PPM again and then re-test my water before I add any more CYA to the pool. At least I am not alone in this frustration over CYA testing.

 

[bdavis466]

I do the test and fill the tube up to 80 PPM and then take a look from the top of the tube. If I can still see the dot, I'll fill it up to the 70, 60, whatever and then look at it from the top. It seems like if you stare at the dot the entire time your eyes might play some tricks on you... Either that or I'm suffering the effects of heavy extracurricular drug use

 

[pooldv]

Here are some reference pics, https://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=44

You can pour the sample back and forth 5 or 10 times until you hone in on the number. Fill to 50 and look, then 60, etc. Filling until the dot is gone and check the number 4 or 5 times. You should find that you'll be within 10ish most of the time. Then if still in doubt just raise it to the next 10 and use that for your CYA number. It is only 1 more ppm of FC going up to the next 10. A little more FC is always better than a little less. It is safe to swim up to shock level for your cya. It is not safe to swim below minimum for your cya.

 

[kimkats]

GLANCE at the dot then look away and GLANCE again. If you do stare you WILL end up seeing it LOL

 

[Titan7]

Thanks will add Salt over the weekend. I need 176 lbs. So open one bag at a time, dump in the pool brush and let dissolve? I assume away from the main drains would be better. I will let the pump run 24 hours or so before turning on the SWG. Anything else?

One other question, Hit 32 days since pebble plaster was installed and 31 days since the pool was filled. When can I fire up the SPA? I "believe" all the plaster dust is gone? I guess I can see a tiny bit in some places with the lighting is right. I should problably do another vacuum or two before? Don't want to hurt the plaster or heater.

thanks!

 

[bdavis466]

You're fine. Fire up the heater.

Dump all the salt in. There is no reason to do one at a time

 

[Titan7]

Thanks, just did CyA testing again. Did the test 50ppm and the black dot is gone at 50 ppm, took some photos. Tested my pool water and to make the dot disappear like the test sample, i am at 35ppm, WHAT??!! Perhaps bad Cya as i should be at 70ppm. I will add more CYA to bring it up to 50ppm and re-test next week.

Brian, thanks, i will stiill manual vaccum again today, perhaps go in the spa tonight.

My robot should be here tomorrow!!!

Side any harm with keeping FC at 6ppm target while waiting for CYA to come up. I am still not losing much FC daily. Only losing .5 ppm per day for the last couple days.

 

[bdavis466]

Nothing is wrong with that FC level

 

[Titan7]

Just a follow up, and continuation from my "White ring of frustration thread". I spend the weekend aerating the water with the spill over and spa.
TA was at 80ppm on Saturday morning.
My PH was back up at 7.5 this morning so I dropped it back down to 7.2. How often should I check TA? Do I need to run the spill over daily to reduce TA or will just the act of lowering PH to 7.2 and letting it rise to 7.5 lower the TA?

Based on Pool Math my CSI is -0.48 with TA at 80 and PH at 7.2 (this is off as I am trying to lower TA)

However, with my PH at 7.4 and TA at 80 my CSI = -0.29, isn't this where I want to be? 0 to -0.30?

When I get my TA to 70, I can run PH at 7.5 and get a CSI value of -0.27 which is also in the "golden range" correct?

Is there a reason to drop TA to 60? I ran the numbers with TA @ 60. CSI is at -0.39 with a PH of 7.5, that seems to be a bit out of the range.

So TA of 70 with a PH of 7.5 = CSI of -0.27, this looks like the target?

I did raise the water level in the pool again, so I can't see the white ring, I will trust you guys that it will dissolve once my CSI and TA are corrected. I also done think the calcium eraser will remove the that stuff.

I also added more CYA to bring it to 50PPM. I know I need to get to 70 but I am going to go slow on this, just don't want to overshoot it.

FC: Since I have not added salt yet, I am running like a non salt pool.
FC target 6ppm with a CYA of 50PPM I only lose 1.5ppm per 24 hour period now.

I am going to check CYA level in a couple days to hope it's come up to 50ppm. If it's at 50ppm I will add salt to the pool and add more CYA to bring the level to 70PPM of CYA as I am not operating as a salt pool. I thought of getting CYA to 70ppm before adding salt but that combo is not recommended on the chart.

Again, thanks for the help, I will be glad when all this become stable, is a bit frustrating, but I think I am learning.

 

[bdavis466]

You want the TA at 60 with a pH of 7.8. PH rise will be much less and less acid will be needed.

The lower the TA, the higher the pH needs to be to compensate and vice versa. You can already see how the number effect one another.

Aeration does not lower TA, it raises the pH without also raising the TA (really the only way to do that). Acid lowers the pH and TA together. There is no way to lower the TA without also lowering the pH. If you can figure out a way to do that, water chemistry will be the least of your worries because you'll have more money than you can figure out how to spend.

Your white ring will disappear with a low CSI or I'll give you every dollar you've ever paid me back

CYA levels are based of sun exposure, not so much just SWGs. I know this stuff is confusing and contradictory but the recommended levels were created for a certain type of person in a certain climate which doesn't apply to all.

 

[pooldv]

I will double Brian's dollars. I have watched my white tile ring disappear several times.

+1 on TA at 60 and PH at 7.8. I would plan on getting CYA up to 80.