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Thread: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

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    I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    I am really having a hard time getting a free chlorine reading in my pool. I went to the pool store today and had them test my water. These are my results....
    TDS 600
    CYA 108
    Total Chlorine 9
    Free Chlorine 0
    PH 7.5
    Tot Alkalinity 193
    Adj. Total Alk 161
    Total Hardness 135

    My pool is a fiberglass pool... 19600 gallons of water....1.5 horsepower Hayward pump

    I think I have totally screwed up!!!

    The pool store told me to add 80 one pound bags of shock to the pool to get a free chlorine reading. I was shocked. I decided to try 6% Clorox bleach. I added eleven 182 fl oz bottles to the pool. Which would be a total of 2002 fl oz. Now when I use your calculator if I am reading it correctly... it is saying to add 24,800 fl oz???? That would be 136 ... bottles of (182 oz) of clorox. What am I doing wrong. I am so frustrated with this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you,

    Jamie
    19600 gallons.. Viking fiberglass pool... 1.5 horsepower Hayward sand filter... Aqua bot turbo....Heat pump

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Hi Jamie,

    If TC is 9 & FC is 0, then you have 9 CC.

    If you added 11 - 182oz bottles of 6% bleach, I think that would put you around 50. With your high CYA and CC 9, you aren't too far off the path for shocking.

    The biggest problem I see is your CYA level. Before you will be able to make headway maintaining FC, the CYA needs to be lowered. We normally recommend 30 to 50 for a LC/Bleach chlorine source.

    Where do you live?

    Look at the Chlorine/CYA Chart in my sig and you will see that for a CYA of 100, you would need to maintain FC of 7 to 14.

    So, my suggestion would be to do a series of drains/refills until you get your CYA to an acceptable level.

    Other numbers can be addressed after the refills.

    Welcome to the forum
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    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    You will be better off in the long run if you get your own test kit rather than rely on the pool stores. On this forum we are fans of the Taylor K-2006, and the TF100 from tftestkits.net. The main reasons are the FAS-DPD chlorine test (handles up to 50ppm with .5 resolution) and the CYA test; those are the only kits that have both. Or you could get them separately.

    I suggest you take another sample to the pool store in the meantime, see what numbers they come up with this time.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Welcome!

    I second the above advice, drain some of your water to lower your CYA, then tackle shocking the pool. In the meantime order one of the two kits Paul mentioned.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Thank you both for your responses. I just got done ordering a Taylor K 2006 C. I live in Pa. I am really trying to avoid draining and refilling the pool as all my water must be brought in. I will take another sample to the pool store in the morning and see if there is any improvement until I receive the test kit that I ordered. I just hate getting info from the pool store.... last year they had me drop over 700 dollars worth of chemicals in my pool at one time and it did nothing. I am so glad I found this forum. I have been researching for the last 5 hours and have found so much useful information. Thanks again for the input and the welcome!!!!
    19600 gallons.. Viking fiberglass pool... 1.5 horsepower Hayward sand filter... Aqua bot turbo....Heat pump

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    funny thing is .......... the pool store told me that my CYA of 108 was ideal!
    19600 gallons.. Viking fiberglass pool... 1.5 horsepower Hayward sand filter... Aqua bot turbo....Heat pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamier
    funny thing is .......... the pool store told me that my CYA of 108 was ideal!
    What a crock.

    Same thing happened to me, mine was over 100 and I knew that...and I went to a different pool store and had them test my water, and the "expert" there didn't test for CYA. I asked him why, and he said to me "you don't need to worry about that."

    Unfortunately Pool Store testing can be woefully inaccurate.

    What's worse is draining is really your only option. When not having issues, you can try to run with a higher FC level to compensate, But when you have a problem like yours, and it requires shock level FC, it will be really impractical to try and shock your pool - the amount of chlorine would be astronomical.

    Remember, we're not talking the entire pool - you can do it in sections, 1 foot at a time or so.

    No worries - from now on when you go to the pool store for water testing or whatever, you are under no obligation to buy anything from them. In fact I wouldn't....if they give you chem advice just say thank you I need to think about it, and turn around and walk out. Then post back here and we'll tell you why they were wrong.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    This was the problem that got me involved in my pool water chemistry...i blindly followed the pool stores advise on these matters and they told me that I had a "chlorine lock" and I put in over 80 pounds of CaHypo and my pool was cloudy for weeks...

    Never again

    With a CYA of 100...you will need a partial drain and refill...if this were late in the season you may be able to limp home...but you have several months to go and unless you fix your CYA...disaster looms
    25,000 gal IG Utopia pool/Raypack gas heater/BBB

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    How much water do you feel I need to drain?
    19600 gallons.. Viking fiberglass pool... 1.5 horsepower Hayward sand filter... Aqua bot turbo....Heat pump

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamier
    How much water do you feel I need to drain?
    about half to get to CYA of 50 if you are starting at 100
    25,000 gal IG Utopia pool/Raypack gas heater/BBB

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamier
    How much water do you feel I need to drain?
    Jamie, please do us a favor and put your pool specs/info in you sig. Go to User Control Panel, then Profile, the Edit Signature.

    What kind of filter do you have? IF it's sand you can drain to get your CYA level down to 60-70, and then your routine backwashing will cause it to drop slowly over the season. IF it's a cartridge filter go ahead and target 50.

    You have to be careful with draining, depending on your water table, type of pool etc., as you don't want to drain too much and have bad things happen. Usually its safe to drain any pool about 1/3 down and the refill, recirculate, retest, repeat if necessary.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    stev32k's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    If it makes you feel any better I had exactly the same problem early this year. My CYA was 120! I didn't want to drain and refill because of the cost and it takes so long, but after messing around with it for weeks without seeing any improvement I decided to bite the bullet and drain it down.

    Best decision I've made regarding the pool. I did waste a lot of time by only drawing it down about 6" several times. I finally dropped it down 3' - refilled and my CYA was 40. Since then the water has been as clear as clean glass. I have not had to shock and all the chemical parameters have been amazingly stable. The pool consumes 1.0 to 1.5 ppm chlorine every day, and the pH has been drifting up slightly because of the liquid bleach I use. Overall since following the instructions here and getting a good test kit the pool is in better shape than it has been in all the eleven years I've had it. It's never gone this long without getting cloudy, having an algae bloom, and requiring massive amounts chlorine to correct the problem. And I don't take pool store advice any more, at all - period.

    For several weeks I ran every test every day and found that the only thing changing was chlorine and pH was rising very slowly. I feel comfortable enough now that I only run all the tests every other week or after a big rain. My chemical usage is one 174 oz. jug of 6% chlorine every other day, and I've added 32 oz of acid once since the first of April. Once I got everything in range it just seems to stay there week after week. Even with the massive rainfall we've had around here the CYA, TA, and calcium hardness are still in range.

    Now if I could just find a way to keep the worms, millipedes, ants, and spiders out of the pool everything would be wonderful.
    20' x 40' IG with vinyl liner volume approx. 35,000 gal.1.5 H.P. main pump, Polaris 280 cleaner W/ 3/4 H.P. booster pump
    Hayward sand filter, 3.14 sq ft, 62 gpm. Stenner 45 MPH10 chlorine feed pump. 1 micron final filter bags (home made and very effective)

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    I just got back from the pool store and wanted to post my new results to see if the opinion is to still do a partial drain.
    TDS -1
    CYA 90
    Total chlorine 8.5
    Free chlorine 0
    PH 6.6
    Total Alk 164
    Adj Alk 137
    hardness 162

    Thank you again for everyone's input... Now I am just looking to see that since my CYA dropped to 90 if you still feel a partial drain is best?

    Thanks, again!!!

    Jamie
    19600 gallons.. Viking fiberglass pool... 1.5 horsepower Hayward sand filter... Aqua bot turbo....Heat pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamier
    I just got back from the pool store and wanted to post my new results to see if the opinion is to still do a partial drain.
    TDS -1
    CYA 90
    Total chlorine 8.5
    Free chlorine 0
    PH 6.6
    Total Alk 164
    Adj Alk 137
    hardness 162

    Thank you again for everyone's input... Now I am just looking to see that since my CYA dropped to 90 if you still feel a partial drain is best?

    Thanks, again!!!

    Jamie
    Yes, drop it down about 8-10 inches and refill, recirculate and retest. Repeat if necessary. Aim for a CYA of 60, since you have a sand filter...it will continue to slowly get lower thru backwashing.

    Is this a different pool store? The PH/TA tests being so varied have me worried. I'll be glad when you're kit arrives because it will yield much more accurate results.

    If that PH is accurate, it's way too low, and needs to be checked again as soon as you refill, possibly adjusted. I'd advise you to pick up a cheap PH/OTO test today so you can test the PH yourself while you wait for the K-2006 to arrive.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Well I am more frustrated than ever. I did a partial water change in my pool and changed the sand in my filter. I went today to have the water retested. I actually went to two different stores to have it tested to see if the results were even close. These are my results:

    Store 1:

    CYA 100
    Total Chlorine 1.7
    Free Chlorine 0
    PH 6.8
    Total Alkalinity 133
    Adj Total Alk. 103
    Total Hardness 121

    They are telling me to add 14 1/2lbs of alkalinity.... .75lbs of balance pak 200... 38 bags of shock.... 39lbs of optimizer plus and 19.5lbs of Lo and slo.

    Store 2:

    Total chlorine 1.3
    Free Chlorine 0
    PH 8.1
    Total Alkalinity 150
    Clacium Hardness 130
    Stabilizer 110
    Combined Chlorine 1.3

    They told me to add 20ounces of phosphate remover and a clarifier. Then they said to change my sand again!!! But that is all they felt I should do!!

    I have no idea what to do and what not to do. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I called today.... the test kit I ordered wont be here till Thursday or Friday. I absolutely don't know what to do!!
    19600 gallons.. Viking fiberglass pool... 1.5 horsepower Hayward sand filter... Aqua bot turbo....Heat pump

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    Have some POP. Pool Owner Patience.

    This is the exact reason why you should have your own reliable test kit. It's on it's way. 8)
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    First, and by far the most important, you need to get your own top quality test kit. There is no way to make progress with pool store test results, especially if they differ that dramatically. You need consistent test results and that means doing the testing yourself. I recommend the TF100 from TF Test Kits, see the link in my signature.

    You need to keep replacing water until the CYA level comes down some more. Do not do any of the things the pool stores have told you to do! The first store is telling you to both raise and lower the PH, which doesn't make any sense at all.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    For me personally, I went to walmart and got their 20 dollar test kit to tide me over till my Taylor came. It has a CYA test (it's 6 way). I was getting the same CYA that one pool store was getting, so I went with that number.

    I would try to do your own testing a couple times. That way there's only ONE person doing and you'll obviously be consistent in how you do it. If you want, you could compare your results to the Pool store.
    27' round AG, sand, Ohio, well water, 19,000 gallons approx., New owners to the pool.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    I know you are frustrated - believe me your story reminds me so much of my own from 2 years ago.

    I too relied on the Wal-Mart 6-way test until I got my kit. IT is an additional $20, so tis up to you but at least you'll get reliable results on PH/TA and CYA, and you can get started, if it turned out your PH was either too low or too high, at least you could take care of that end of it...

    I hope you ordered the right kit - the TF100 or the K-2006. No other kit will do.

    I would still say it's safe to assume your CYA is very high so I would repeat a partial drain of about 1 foot down and refill, recirculate. Then you can retest and take it from there. Don't change your sand again, it's not necessary.

    Don't buy any of the pool store chems. Your pool can be fixed for much less money, you have been pool stored enough, don't let them take you again.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    NCFlyersFan's Avatar
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    Re: I need help BIG TIME... FRUSTRATED

    The best advice I have is to be patient and listen to these experts. And to head to WALMART and stock up on their large bottles of unscented ultra bleach. Stay the course and you will be up and running in no time for ALOT less money than the pool store will charge you.
    13,000 gal AGP, Hayward X-Stream 100 sq ft cartridge, 1 HP Hayward Power-Flo Matrix Pump, all on two 6-hour on cycles per day. Baquacil to BBB convert.
    "It is necessary for us to learn from others' mistakes. You will not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman G. Rickover

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