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Thread: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

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    15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    I have a ~15K max in ground pool..... I have a 1" natural gas line already in place. What is the best heater suggestion? I want to add a heater, want one that does not struggle to heat the pool. (over sized) Never researched, looking for advice.
    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Are you looking to heat it occasionally for an event? Or heat it to your favorite number and keep it there all the time?
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Raypak 406A. It is a 399K BTU unit and a great unit.

    Please do some searching on here and you will find that Raypak gets the popular vote.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Are you looking to heat it occasionally for an event? Or heat it to your favorite number and keep it there all the time?
    I am just looking to extend the swimming season on both ends. Right now is a perfect situation as an example, for the past few weeks the temperatures have been in the low to upper 70s, Water temp right around 70°, grandkids are swimming but it is a bit chilly. I would probably be looking to raise the temp 5 or 6° until the temperature would exceed that on it's own and then do the same at the other end of the season. So I'll probably run the heater on occasion for 8 to 12 weeks per year. Once the water temp were to hit 60° in the spring would probably be a starting point to raise it to mid 70s, and then once the temperature will drop to the mid-70s in the fall maintain the temp as long as reasonable.
    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Quote Originally Posted by ps0303 View Post
    Raypak 406A. It is a 399K BTU unit and a great unit.

    Please do some searching on here and you will find that Raypak gets the popular vote.
    Thank you for that reply, I appreciate it.
    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    One more thing I should mention, as it probably will make a difference on the internal parts, this will be a saltwater pool.


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Salt pools makes no difference on the heater. Don't believe anyone that tries to sell you a unit with a cooper nickle heat exchanger just because you have a salt pool.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Quote Originally Posted by ps0303 View Post
    Salt pools makes no difference on the heater. Don't believe anyone that tries to sell you a unit with a cooper nickle heat exchanger just because you have a salt pool.
    Is this a fact? Is it because heaters are made with equipment that can withstand it? I have to think that saltwater is harder than freshwater on metal. I just want to get this right the first time. I need to do research, but I have learned to trust this forum.
    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Depending on how much gas you're currently using, you may need to upgrade your meter to handle that many BTU's. Our service is really only sized to handle 250k BTU's, and we use that in the furnace, water heater, & cooktop alone. Thankfully the utility company needs to upgrade our meter AND put it outside anyway, so that isn't going to cost us anything to do! They ought to be able to put a tee after the meter for the external run to the pool, and they'll probably do it in at least 1.25" if not 1.5", according to our HVAC guy. That should serve our current needs plus give us plenty of headroom if we wanted to go as high as a 400k BTU pool heater (currently working on putting in a 266).
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    A gas heater probably makes most sense. Raypak gas heaters are definitely the fan favorite at TFP. All heaters are compatible with saltwater pools.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    There used to be a heater on this pool as the gas line is there as is the cement pad. It looks to be 1" coming up out of the ground reduced to 3/4" right at the connection that would go to the heater once in place. I would like to think that since there is a gas line there it is equipped for feed to a heater. How can I check the flow capacity?


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    The way I check gas lines is to call a plumber!
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Quote Originally Posted by Lykly View Post
    There used to be a heater on this pool as the gas line is there as is the cement pad. It looks to be 1" coming up out of the ground reduced to 3/4" right at the connection that would go to the heater once in place. I would like to think that since there is a gas line there it is equipped for feed to a heater. How can I check the flow capacity?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do you know how long the line is from the meter?
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Quote Originally Posted by ps0303 View Post
    Do you know how long the line is from the meter?
    Stepping it off it appears to be ~45 feet.

    You can see in the picture, the 1.25 inch line goes into the house, and the 1 inch line splits off and into the ground which also has a reduced line off of it that goes to an outdoor grill which is only a few feet away. I also have a gas fire pit, that is probably plumbed in underground, it is probably 15 feet opposite direction of the pool heater line.

    So off of the meter I have a 1.25 going into my house, a 1 inch line going into the ground, and a half inch feeder going to my outdoor grill. And I am presuming there is a line going to my fire pit, which is not going to be on most of the time obviously.

    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Thought I would add one more picture, this is the 1 inch line coming up by the pool equipment, reduced at The end to a three-quarter inch connection.




    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    I'll let others comment on the gas line sizing but I will say this - without a pool cover, you'll be wasting a lot of money heating the pool.

    I have a 16,000 gallon pool and 400kBTU MasterTemp heater that runs my 650 gallon attached spa but can just as easily be used to heat the pool. I get about 2 deg F per hour or so. Without a pool cover, any heat I add to the water will be gone by the next day if the pool is uncovered. So say I use the gas heater on my pool for 6 hours of heating, then that is 2.4 million BTUs or 24 Therms. At ~ $1.10/Therm, that would be $26.60 worth of gas. If I left my pool uncovered, all that extra heat would be gone in a day.

    Now your gas rates and weather are different than mine so you have to figure out the exact details as they apply to your pool, but I can unequivocally say that, without a cover, you will spend a lot of money heating your pool.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1&quot; line

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    - without a pool cover, you'll be wasting a lot of money heating the pool.

    Now your gas rates and weather are different than mine so you have to figure out the exact details as they apply to your pool, but I can unequivocally say that, without a cover, you will spend a lot of money heating your pool.
    Thanks joyfulNoise, my problem is my pool is a very irregular shape. Not even sure how I would attach a pool cover, and if I could it would really be difficult to put on and off on a regular basis. I have heard of, and am not at all familiar with, solar blankets. I think float on the surface? Even if these didn't fit exact would they be helpful? With summer coming on, I likely will wait till this fall to do this, so I have some time to determine the best route. By the time I could get it and have it installed the pool temp will be comfortable. (must be since I'm watching my granddaughter swim as I type this) Would like to be prepared for fall. Thanks again, I value your input very much.
    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    I recently followed Mark's excellent DIY instructions for making a solar cover roller. My pool is probably A LOT more irregularly shaped than yours and I can now deploy/retract a solar bubble cover all by myself on my 18' X 36' freeform pool. Check it out -

    DIY Solar Cover Roller
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JayBauman's Avatar
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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Over time, the industry has gotten smarter about how to get gas to swimming pools. Typical neighborhood gas service is delivered to your meter at ~50lb. pressure. Your meter has a regulator that drops the pressure down to ~7oz. to run all of your household gas utilities*.

    The maximum size residential pool heater is 400,000 BTU/hr. There are 2 possibilities for how to deliver this substantial volume of gas required to run these heaters: 1) use bigger line to the heater; or 2) use higher gas pressure.

    Since your gas line is already in place, you can easily use Option 2. (My pool 400,000 BTU/hr heater is 150' from my gas meter, so my plumber used this option in my recent pool build.) I have a dual-stage pressure drop. The gas service comes to my house and immediately hits a regulator to drop pressure to ~2lb. right before my meter. After the meter, I have a tee with one leg going to a 2nd regulator that drops my pressure to 7oz before it goes into my house. The 2nd leg (at 2lb.) runs out to my pool heater, where it gets stepped down via a 3rd regulator (located adjacent to my pool heater) to the 7oz. required to run my pool heater.

    You could use a similar setup to get adequate gas volume to your heater, regardless of the line size and distance from your meter.


    * The pressure numbers are from memory, so they may not be exactly correct. Regardless, they are directionally correct and can illustrate my point.
    23' x 37' IG 18.5k gallon SWG w/ raised spa, Build Thread -->Here
    Wet Edge® Pearl Matrix®, Hayward® SwimClear™ 525 ft², Hayward® Goldline Controls® PS-8
    4x Hayward® TriStar™ pumps, Paramount PCC2000® ICS, TF-100 w/Speedstir

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    Re: 15K gallons / Natural Gas / 1" line

    Just to clarify on the gas line sizes...are you measuring the OD or the ID? Pipe, gas, water etc, is measured on the ID. A 1" OD pipe will be a 3/4" pipe.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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