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Thread: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc?

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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc?

    Pool.jpg

    This is the 20'x40' 26,000 gallon IG pool we have, with some notes on where the plumbing comes into the side of the pool. I'm considering starting nearly from scratch, doing some re-plumbing and replacing ALL the mechanical & electrical to the shed where everything in hidden behind. Thankfully everything seems fine thus far with the pool & liner (knock on wood), but the electrical isn't to code so that's being upgraded first with a new service & proper grounding.

    I spent last summer behind the shed trying to repair a pump that blew 3 motors, wasting a boatload of time and money - and never got an answer as to why this happened*. Me and my wife are dropping some serious $$$ on home repairs (furnace, AC, water heater, new electrical service to the pool shed), so we're just going to add to that loan and replace everything mechanical back there: new plumbing at the pad, new pump, new filter, and our first heater. We have an old Pac-Fab TR-60 that I rebuilt last summer, which may still be good, but at the very least, we'll be putting a new multipart valve on the old TR-60. I'm pretty much open to whatever gear goes back here, so long as it all works!

    I've discovered that there's a leak in the (30 year old) black flex pipe to the skimmer, and if I am (or someone else is) going to have to dig that pipe up, I'm considering putting in 2" or 2.5" suction lines back to the shed. We might as well up the size on the deep end vacuum line while we have the trench from the skimmer to the shed dug up, right? The way the pipes run would probably mean the 1.5" return line would stay put (it's also tested to be working fine). Also, the skimmer we have only has 1.5" pipe connections, so if we up the size of the pipe, should we consider replacing the skimmer as well? If we did, I'd like to do so with a deeper throat skimmer, so we can put some pavers around that side of the pool.

    As I noted above, I'm open to any suggestions at this point, if we're going to be re-plumbing the pipes to a bigger size. I'm not 100% sure I'm on board with the quotes I've gotten thus far (both want to install some massive pumps and leave them running 24/7), so I wanted to see if anyone had some thoughts on what they do in this situation, such as what would be the starting point for designing their system?

    *: We suspect what was blowing the motors last year was a combo of electrical issues and the suction side leak. We upgraded our house electrical panel, as it was NOT tripping breakers, even on a major fault which melted a receptacle. As such, the old motors were pulling WAY more current than otherwise would have been allowed by the new panel we have now. I'm also suspecting that the pump was having to work much harder with at least one leak in the skimmer pipe, which may have made it run hotter? Either way, new electrical and new plumbing should rule out either of these problems moving forward...

    EDIT/UPDATE 1 (5/24/2016): we are now moving forward with a new heater, new Superflo VS pump, new hi-flow multi-port valve (for our existing sand filter), a new liner, and new plumbing runs of 2" poly pipe.
    Last edited by MitchRyan912; 05-24-2016 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Added update #1 to original post.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    I will point out that you want an electrician who understands pools and the unique electrical requirements. Not only are pools grounded & use GFCI protection there is a bonding grid that should connect the pool, ladder, water a loop underground and maybe that fence depending on the distance.

    Again, for the safety of your family make sure the electrician understands pool bonding.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    If it were me

    If I had to dig up 1 I would do all of them at least 2 inch, your pump, through wall and skimmer are all 1.5 inch anyways but you will get less pressure and more flow with 2 inch pipe...

    As for pump, I think a 1hp 2 speed would work great for you, you may be able to go down to a 3/4 hp 2 speed but that may be pushing it... I am running a 1hp 2 speed with runs just about as long as you and get great flow on low and high will move some water Amazon.com : Pentair 340042 SuperFlo High Performance Energy Efficient Two Speed Pool Pump, 1 Horsepower, 230 Volt, 1 Phase - Energy Star Certified : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden

    As for the filter, if it is working and no issues and it is keeping your water clarity where you like it, stay with that, if you want better go to a new cartridge filter like this Amazon.com : Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 320 Square Foot In Ground Cartridge Pool Filter - 160340 : Swimming Pool Cartridge Filters : Patio, Lawn Garden

    on the skimmer, I am not sure how easy that will be as the liner and sidewall would need to be modified for something new..

    Hope this helps
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    I will point out that you want an electrician who understands pools and the unique electrical requirements. Not only are pools grounded & use GFCI protection there is a bonding grid that should connect the pool, ladder, water a loop underground and maybe that fence depending on the distance.

    Again, for the safety of your family make sure the electrician understands pool bonding.
    I once apprenticed in a union shop for 3 years (granted it was commercial/industrial work, not residential), so I have an idea of what needs to be done and what needs to be communicated to them. The two who've come out to quote the job thus far have mentioned all this, and the fence.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    First guy wants to put a 1.5 HP single speed Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro motor in, and "let it run 24/7". Haven't gotten a price on that yet.
    Second guy quoted us nearly $1000 for a Superflo VS.

    Both of these came in before any consideration to replacing the 1.5" suction lines was given. Looking for more quotes...
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchRyan912 View Post
    First guy wants to put a 1.5 HP single speed Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro motor in, and "let it run 24/7". Haven't gotten a price on that yet.
    Second guy quoted us nearly $1000 for a Superflo VS.

    Both of these came in before any consideration to replacing the 1.5" suction lines was given. Looking for more quotes...
    Unless your electricity is crazzzy high like CA then a VS pump can be overkill, but some people love them, they can do many things... make sure you get a pump surge protector as they are very sensitive to spikes and such and will die a horrible death Intermatic AG3000 120/240 VAC Universal HVAC Surge Protective Device - Computer Surge Protectors - Amazon.com

    2 speed pumps are the middle ground, they can do great on electricity on low and move massive amounts of water on hi and you get to choose what speed
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchRyan912 View Post
    *: We suspect what was blowing the motors last year was a combo of electrical issues and the suction side leak. We upgraded our house electrical panel, as it was NOT tripping breakers, even on a major fault which melted a receptacle. As such, the old motors were pulling WAY more current than otherwise would have been allowed by the new panel we have now. I'm also suspecting that the pump was having to work much harder with at least one leak in the skimmer pipe, which may have made it run hotter? Either way, new electrical and new plumbing should rule out either of these problems moving forward...
    Higher head loss usually results in lower power draw in a pump. I suspect the issue was with the pump itself. There was too much load in the pump and it was overloading the motors. The other possibility is that the motor size was too small for the impeller. Did you just buy this house and was the motor new at the time?


    First guy wants to put a 1.5 HP single speed Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro motor in, and "let it run 24/7".
    That is an incredibly bad idea. Don't even think about using that guy. A single speed pump running 24/7 will cost you a fortune.

    But there is also the option of a 2 speed pump. It gives you most of the energy savings of a VS but a lower up front cost. However, any rebate that you get on a VS pump from your local power utility might make a VS worth it.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Higher head loss usually results in lower power draw in a pump. I suspect the issue was with the pump itself. There was too much load in the pump and it was overloading the motors. The other possibility is that the motor size was too small for the impeller. Did you just buy this house and was the motor new at the time?
    You may remember my problems that I posted on another site last year. We bought the house from my in-laws, and when we went to open the pool for our first spring (2014), the pump they had been using wasn't working. They bought a new Waterway SMF-110 (1.25 SFHP), we installed it, and it ran fine that year (running 24/7!). The problem appeared last summer, and we have no idea how or why it blew up. Nothing had changed, but I came from work one day looking forward to a swim, and the pump wasn't running. It was humming from being seized up, and it definitely wasn't pushing any water. I later determined the motor was drawing 45 A, which is obviously way too high for a motor hooked up to 230 volts! Why it's doing that (with NO load nor even a wet end attached to it!), I still have no idea.

    Since the wet end wasn't something that was really easy to find parts for (much less reference numbers on them), I couldn't even attempt trying a new impeller. As far as I could tell, I had the appropriate impeller installed. This is one reason to start fresh and get a name brand, especially one where my local store will stock replacement parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    That is an incredibly bad idea. Don't even think about using that guy. A single speed pump running 24/7 will cost you a fortune.

    But there is also the option of a 2 speed pump. It gives you most of the energy savings of a VS but a lower up front cost. However, any rebate that you get on a VS pump from your local power utility might make a VS worth it.
    I had been interested in the 2 speed Max-E-Pro, I believe the 3/4 HP dual speed version. However, my local pool store really doesn't stock anything less than 1 HP, as their salespeople and all these pool builders I've talked to (so far) seem to lean towards the "bigger is better" mentality. Go figure... they stock K2006 kits, but not small motors!
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Are you opposed to buying online?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    I would get the Superflo VS here, Pentair SuperFlo VS Pump 342001 | Pentair 342001
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Are you opposed to buying online?
    I'm not, but my wife would rather have someone that knows what they're doing be the one to hook all this stuff up, notably the heater. I lost half a summer being stuck behind the shed at the pad, and she doesn't want to repeat that experience. I don't want to either, but if it can save us some $$$, then I'd order online and hook it all up myself.

    If I can find a builder who is willing to let me handle the major parts purchasing (pump, filter, heater) and just do the labor, I'd be OK with that. I just don't know if any builders would be OK with that (having been on the flip side of that coin in another industry, I wouldn't install gear a customer brought to me unless my employer sold it to them). So there's that...
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Even with electrical experience you should read Mike Holt's illustrated guide to the 2014 NEC swimming pools.

    Its a good basic primmer on pool electrical. Its biased towards gunite pools but it is good. Pools have different rules than you would expect so its good to double check yourself until you have some experience with them.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Thanks, I'll look that up and see what might surprise me - and what I might see that I'm sure hasn't been done properly, or even done at all. I'm pretty sure the ladders and steps aren't properly grounded, as there is/was just a loose romex wire coming out of the concrete near each step, and another that connected to the water spigot on the house.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    mas985, I've been reading and re-reading your Hydraulics 101 post, and went through the APSP-15 standard, and this is what I'm getting out of these readings so far:

    My max filtration rate should be 72 GPM, and that I should probably have 2.5" suction lines (though since I have a skimmer and a vac line, I could get away with a pair of 1.5" lines), and at least a 2" return line. I'm leaning towards putting in a pair of 2" suction lines and upgrading the return to 2" (all are currently 1.5"). Should I change the plumbing in the wall of the pool and get a skimmer that can accommodate a 2" pipe? My water level is currently below the plumbing line, so I could do it now before I fill up the pool.

    My current sand filter may or may not be OK (though may well be undersized), but I'd like my pool to be as clean as possible, so a DE filter sounds interesting to me. It looks like they're smaller in size compared to a sand filter, so that' a bonus. It looks like I should have at least a 36.1 sq ft filter area for this. FWIW, I live in Wisconsin and haven't (yet) had any issues with algae. Amazingly enough, there wasn't an algae issue last summer without much circulation going while my pump motors were down.

    If I end up buying online, I think the Superflo VS looks like it could work, but it might still be a bit oversized for the quick clean mode? Maybe even too much for the 3000 RPM mode?
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Should I change the plumbing in the wall of the pool and get a skimmer that can accommodate a 2" pipe?
    No, not worth it and it could end up causing leaks. Most pools have 1 1/2" out of the returns anyway. Only change the pipe if it is leaking or you suspect that it may start to leak (e.g. poly with hose clamps).

    If I end up buying online, I think the Superflo VS looks like it could work, but it might still be a bit oversized for the quick clean mode? Maybe even too much for the 3000 RPM mode?
    That's not really an issue because you can set the max speed to anything you want. If you go this route, check for power company rebates because they may offset some of the cost. Also, you will need to add surge protection for the pump or the drive could easily get fried.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    No, not worth it and it could end up causing leaks. Most pools have 1 1/2" out of the returns anyway. Only change the pipe if it is leaking or you suspect that it may start to leak (e.g. poly with hose clamps).
    This is why I'd be digging everything up. The mechanical & electrical was going to be all new anyway, but I pulled off a chunk of my plumbing to get to the pipes:

    FullSizeRender.jpg

    The other ends are still capped off from winterization, so I filled the pipes up with a hose, then topped them off with water from a pitcher. The pipe that leads to the skimmer had a much harder time holding water than the others, but did eventually get to a point where I could top it off. However, none of the 3 pipes full hold this water level, and the skimmer line was the worst offender. I've repeated this over the course of a couple days, and the water keeps falling, even though it shouldn't. I assume there is a leak, because the water is going somewhere?

    That's not really an issue because you can set the max speed to anything you want. If you go this route, check for power company rebates because they may offset some of the cost. Also, you will need to add surge protection for the pump or the drive could easily get fried.
    No rebates that I can see, nor is electricity particularly expensive here. We just use an obscene amount of it in the summer months compared to an average utility user (3x our average usage from June-Sept).

    Considering the "cheapie" pump we originally had was $400, spending $650-700 online for something like the Superflo VS doesn't seem too painful. It's better to spend more and get good gear than to have blown the cheapie pump, another $300 for a new motor that's now junk, plus all the time & energy wasted last year. That's as good as am energy rebate in our mind. Plus, we're on a budget plan, so our bill is based on past usage. Eventually we'll get the benefit of reduced power usage once we get a VS pump going.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    According to the ASPS-15 worksheet, it says I ought to have a:

    sand filter with a minimum size of 4.8 sq ft
    cartridge filter with a minimum size of 192 sq ft or a
    DE filter with a minimum size of 36.1 sq ft

    Do these numbers seem right for a 26,000 gallon pool with a max flow rate of 72 GPM?

    This seems to indicate that the TR-60 we've been using for 20+ years has been too small, and we should've had a TR-100. If I wanted to go another route, I'd be looking at some filters along the lines of the Pentair Clean & Clear CC200/CCRP200 or something like a Quad DE60 or FNSP36? I'll be looking at other manufacturers soon enough, FWIW.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Those would be minimum sizes. It is always a good idea to oversize by a little bit (25%-50%).

    Do these numbers seem right for a 26,000 gallon pool with a max flow rate of 72 GPM?
    But you may not have a maximum flow rate of 72 GPM. That is just a recommended flow rate for 2" plumbing. There is no fundamental limit of flow rates through plumbing other than what the pump can produce. But in those filter size range, it won't matter anyway.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Filters I love me some filter... bigger is always better and way bigger is a bonus...

    TR100 is a great big monster and will work well if you like a sand filter
    Amazon.com : Pentair Triton II Side Mount Filter TR100 Fiberglass Sand Filter without Valve : Swimming Pool Cartridge Filters : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Cartridge, I love a cart filter, I would go 420 but you could go bigger using the 520, they are just about the same price but man are they great... I clean the filters once a year, no backwash needed... But some people hate cart filters and that is usually because they are too small... I have the 320 and even if I had to SLAM my pool I would still be able to get through the SLAM before I needed to clean them..
    Amazon.com : Pentair 160301 Clean Garden
    Amazon.com : Pentair 160332 Clean Garden

    DE: They are the best filter for getting stuff out of the water and that also makes them the worst filter if anything like a SLAM is needed and that is only because they work so good you have to backwash and add DE.. The DE is another expense..

    I hope this helps
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Digging up pipes & starting over: all new PVC, pump, filter, skimmer, heater, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Those would be minimum sizes. It is always a good idea to oversize by a little bit (25%-50%).
    Oh wow, that's going to kick me up into a BIG sand filters, like the TR-140! I might be inclined to go with something like a Quad DE60 then.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    But you may not have a maximum flow rate of 72 GPM. That is just a recommended flow rate for 2" plumbing. There is no fundamental limit of flow rates through plumbing other than what the pump can produce. But in those filter size range, it won't matter anyway.
    Right, and I guess I was assuming the max flow rate was to avoid the issues of the 6-8 ft/sec flow rates for suction & return in 2" pipes. I would only hope to get up to that rapid of a flow (or higher) for quick clean purposes while the pool is unoccupied, leaving the rest of the time the pump runs for a much slower flow and smaller electric bill.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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