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Thread: Tanning ledge too small

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    Tanning ledge too small

    Thanks for the add! I came here seeking input on how to handle this... our building plan specified a 9'X5' tanning ledge. At the time of excavation our builder/owner of the company had left for 2 weeks of vacation but assured us his guys knew what they were doing after decades in the business. When they carved out the earth for the ledge we could see the shelf looked more like a large step. When the rebar crew came I showed them the pool plan & discussed how it seemed it was dug too small. They said they could fix it. It still looked small later in the day so I had my husband go out when he got home & talk to the foreman. They told us it would get bigger after gunite and plaster so we should stop worrying about it. We know nothing about pool building so believed they were telling the truth. Here we are after plaster & we now have an odd shaped 9'long ledge that is barely 3.5' at its widest point.. Kind of a big paisley shaped step, not something you could lay out on or anything. We called the contractor who is coming out to see for himself in a few days to see if we are telling the truth. The rest of the pool is beautiful but the ledge is really frustrating. Now what? Any suggestions on how to handle this? Thanks for any input!
    18K gallon in ground free-form, gunite, QuartzScape plaster, raised spa

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    Stick to your guns! If you have not already written down when you said something and who you said it to do so NOW.

    Don't let them talk you out of what you wanted "Oh well now it will take a lot of work to change it......" Sorry IF you had listened before when I talked to ______ on date.............

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    FullSizeRender.jpgIMG_2369.jpgThe deepest part measures 3'6"
    18K gallon in ground free-form, gunite, QuartzScape plaster, raised spa

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    Richie Rich's Avatar
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    That is worth fighting over, for sure...
    Pool Build Finished 08/21/15
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    fighting how? do you think they might be able to redo it? thanks!
    18K gallon in ground free-form, gunite, QuartzScape plaster, raised spa

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    OH they can redo it. It will be a LOT of work...........

    -drain water
    -chip out plaster and gunite around the ledge
    -redo steel to add to the ledge
    -redo gunite and plaster

    That is what I THINK they would have to do............I am not sure.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    I would stick to making them fix it. We use our ledge way more than I thought we would. It's where everyone hangs out. It will be a lot of work, but worth it.
    17K freeform, IG, Primera Stone Sky Blue Treasure, Pentair DE, Intelliflo VS+SVRS, NOV 2014, K-2006, Pentair Racer, no gas in our area so pool only, no heater, will be looking at adding solar next season

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    amandahein3's Avatar
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    That would be a must fix for me! It's useless at that size
    Free form pool 90'3" prim, 14180 gallons. TF100 Kit In pool table with travertine top, 3sheer descents, Depth 3.5-5-4, Jandy 2HP pump, Inline Chlorinator, Wetedge Satin Matrix Antigua.

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    Helen203's Avatar
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    I am a pool newbie, as my pool is still under construction. The effective area of our just-shot shell sunshelf is 6'x8, and it is enough for the cheapo plastic Adirondack chairs I plan of putting there. If you want enough room for a chaise or two, you'll need more space. The plastic chairs are comfortable... But if that is not enough for you, the gunite people can free-form shape whatever you need at such a shallow depth. Sorry you hit this hiccup...
    My Pool Build (2015): inground 12K gals gunite/plaster pool, SWG, 2-speed pump, cartridge filter, gas heater, and polaris cleaner (Jandy). TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speed Stir

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    Update: thanks for the input, everyone! Builder came out & measured our supposed to be 5x9 ledge & at just the right angles he was able to clock it at 4x10. He said they gave us an extra 6" on each of the long end points so it kinda makes us even overall. (The shape of the ledge shouldn't even have had these weird end points and that 6" triangular point is barely enough for my shoe to stand on.) We tried to explain to him at 5x9 we planned to squeeze a couple of loungers on there, but now at 4' with the weird shape, loungers won't work. He thinks we're being ridiculous. He said he would "throw us a bone" & offered up a box of pool chemicals valued at $160.

    We told him that was a ridiculously frustrating thing to be offering. We expressed our frustration at the rebar guys saying it would get bigger. He blamed it on the gunite crew...that they should have added on another foot of gunite. I(I don't think that would have worked with the weird shape and the next step there, but we aren't educated on these things.) He said there was nothing else he could do at this point. He mentioned he would not be eating into his profit on this. After much talk in the sun, my husband randomly threw out "$1500" to make it right with us (which is what it is costing us to finish the gas plumbing for the spa. This may be super high or super low...we realize we have no clue...totally random#) He was appalled at that amount. We suggested that if the gunite guys are to blame maybe he should be asking them to chip in. He supposedly called them today & said they laughed at the thought. Today he offered us $425 back (his fee for a ledge) or he said, otherwise we agreed in our contract to go to arbitration. He said the arbitrator would calculate the extra 6" he gave us on the ends, then calculate the square footage they still owed us in plaster and gunite, and it would be around $150 so he believed the $425 offer was generous of him.

    So so here we are. It has been a long 4 months of building & we would like to be done with contractors to be honest. We do love the rest of the pool & don't know that we can deal with continued fighting him on this especially since we don't even know what is reasonable to ask for. We will just wash our hands of it before we take the $425 as he wants us to come get the check and then sign some paperwork in return...we aren't signing anything so we said no on the $425.
    18K gallon in ground free-form, gunite, QuartzScape plaster, raised spa

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    If I specify a size of 4x6 and a contractor builds it 5x5, that doesn't work. He can't argue that one dimension makes up for the other. You specfied a size you wanted and he didn't build it as per spec. Not your problem. My neighbor had a similar issue and the PB put in rebar and poured a concrete addition to his step area. However that was before plaster. I have a 7x7 sun shelf and it just right for two loungers.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    If you are bound to arbitration then proceed with that. There is a chance that you may win and get what you want. Better in my mind to do that than accept $425 and waive your right to pursue further.
    34x17, IG gunite pool, Cathedral shape, Hayward Pro-Logic automation, 40,000 gal T-cell 15, Hayward EcoStar VFD, Hayward Star-Clear Plus C1200 Cartridge Filter, Hayward ColorLogic LED lights x 2

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    I would say if it's on the plan as 5x7 and he didn't build it that size then he didn't built it according to specs. It doesn't really matter if the area is the same. Can you find out how much the gunite people would charge to make it what it's supposed to be? Could you then have them do it and withhold that amount from the PB's payment?
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    Wow, I'm sorry to hear this. It sounds like you are either stuck with a ledge that is smaller then it was suppose to be, and $425 back in your pocket, or you are stuck going through arbitration to try to make them fix it the way the plan was written. The thing is your plan was written for a 5x9 tanning ledge not a 4x10 tanning ledge.

    He can attempt to justify the size difference anyway he wants, but he is wrong. If it's not big enough to do what you had planned on doing with it then regardless of whether he gave you 6" or 60" more on each side to the total design than was planned is completely irrelevant.

    I'd be totally ticked because the way it is is basically useless for the purpose you had it built for. Sadly, it appears he's left you guys between a rock, and a hard place, and doesn't appear the least bit guilty in doing so. He knows he's in the wrong, or he wouldn't be offering you little incentives trying to get you to let it go.

    Could you take the arbitration option and win, and they be forced to repair it correctly, possibly, but you also risk the chance of not winning, and then being under all that additional stress, and being out additional money in the process. It's a tough call either way you look at it. It's a call that only you and your hubby can make, but whatever you guys decide we will all be here rooting for you every step of the way.

    Have a wonderful night, and again I am truly sorry that you all are having to deal with this.
    24' Round x 4.5 ft deep AGP (15,200 Gallons), Vinyl Liner, Hayward Vari Flo XL Sand Filter- (model SP0714T1),
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    Thank you all. We will might just try to enjoy our spa that we love & ignore our weirdo ledge you can see in the background here...the dogs can lounge out on it I guess! image.jpg
    18K gallon in ground free-form, gunite, QuartzScape plaster, raised spa

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    You pool is beautiful. I am about to start our build and I hope I don't have to deal with something like this. I would be so angry. I work in an industry that if its not built to the plans, no payment. The contractor signed the plans and the contract as well.


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    I'm in the process of bidding a pool in Texas, so I want to know who this builder is.

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    So sorry about the ledge You might be able to squeeze an Adirondack chair on the ledge -- the base is ~ 3 feet, and the back can extend over the coping. Just a thought.

    Your spa is beautiful! With the rounded edges, I bet it is very comfortable.
    My Pool Build (2015): inground 12K gals gunite/plaster pool, SWG, 2-speed pump, cartridge filter, gas heater, and polaris cleaner (Jandy). TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speed Stir

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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    Arbitration is generally pretty inexpensive (usually each side pays half of the arbitrator's fee). It would be a one day affair and during the arbitration it would come out that he offered you $425, so an arbitrator likely would at least give you that. One thing you would need to do is get estimates to correct it. $425 is not that much money and the arbitration shouldn't be too stressful. If it really bothers you ( and it apparently does) I would go to arbitration and try to win he money to fix it. However, it would be very helpful if you could verify your prior conversations with he foreman and rebar guy. It appears that was all verbal. I would try to send an email to the PB where you highlight this information and hope his response implicitly accepts those facts. One concern I have is that you did not ( at least you don't mention this) raise he issue again after the gunite. An arbitrator may be perplexed why you didn't again raise the issue immediately after the gunite was poured since at that point it is indisputable that a mistake was made ( plaster could not fix it). Nevertheless, based on everything you said if it was me I would go to arbitration, document everything I could, and try to get the money to fix it. I suspect your PB will raise his offer as the arbitration approaches ( or when you tell him you are pursuing that avenue)
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Tanning ledge too small

    What this says!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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