The husband finally let me take over and I don't want to blow it!!

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it would be a good idea to test in the morning and night just to make sure your not dropping below fc6.. until you get a good feel for how much chlorine it needs daily :) then you can go to once a day
 
AprilsZoo said:
Ya know, I only do the FAS-DPD test once a week, or if my OTO (yellow drops) check is lower than I expect.

Once you've gotten past your slam, you can use the "basic" test with the yellow drops. Just look for the yellow result you get to be definitely darker/brighter yellow than the darkest yellow on the comparator. It's not an exact value, but it doesn't have to be... You just need to know that you clearly have >5ppm Cl.
In my records, I usually just record:
CL= 5+ (OTO) very dark yellow​

Now if you have any indication of problems, like dull, or cloudy water.... a lower than expected OTO (lighter yellow) result ... dead animals :shock: ... Etc. then you need to do the full FAS-DPD (powder) test, and check for CC.
And it's good practice to do it weekly no matter what.

I know that once you have the big chemistry set, it's hard to remember that your pool isn't a science experiment-- but you shouldn't feel like you are "chasing numbers" all the time.

Pools are supposed to be fun. And now you know with absolute certainty, that your water is as clean (or cleaner) than what comes out of your tap ...
So go on, put on your  and join TH in the pool ... You just might find out that pools are as much fun for adults as they are for kids! :p
(How secluded is your yard?  :slidehalo:)
Click to expand...

i know I tend to be a number chaser, but the original reason for me getting onto TFP was to get rid of the stains in the pool. Now that the "basics" are over (completing the SLAM) I want to see what if anything further can be done to minimize the stains. Pools are fun for some, but not for me?. The fun part for me is making progress toward the original goal.

After i I passed the SLAM the first time it was recommended to test for metals. The copper was .3, no iron, but the calcium was very high. Pool store tested at 489, I tested it at 675. I was told to do the other tests after the SLAM was complete and the FC levels came down. I think I can do that now.
Ive also noticed that as the FC levels come down, the stains look darker. Maybe the fact that I did not brush while I was gone also contributed?

i reviewed prev posts and saw Jacks Magic for calcium scaling recommended. Do you all still think so? Is that just to ID the stain, or an actual stain removing product? ( I did the vitamin C and chlorine tab test and neither seem to make a difference.)

thanks!
 
Since you tested zero for iron, 0.3ppm for Cu and neither the trichlor tablet nor the vitamin C tablets did anything, then you can pretty much rule out an organic or metallic stain.

I think the consensus opinion so far is that you have a bad case of calcium scaling due to your water being out of balance in the past. There no simple chemical fix for that. Typically when people get really bad calcium scale on their plaster, they drain the pool and do an acid wash. It's both expensive and time consuming so you'll need to consider that.


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JoyfulNoise said:
Since you tested zero for iron, 0.3ppm for Cu and neither the trichlor tablet nor the vitamin C tablets did anything, then you can pretty much rule out an organic or metallic stain.

I think the consensus opinion so far is that you have a bad case of calcium scaling due to your water being out of balance in the past. There no simple chemical fix for that. Typically when people get really bad calcium scale on their plaster, they drain the pool and do an acid wash. It's both expensive and time consuming so you'll need to consider that.


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Click to expand...

Grrrrrrr......����
what would you do?
 
Jump in the pool and swim?????????? LOL (I do remember you do not care to swim)

If you want to you can brush with a steel brush and in time home the build up breaks down. I would pick ONE spot and work on it when you feel like it to see if it is doing any good.

Kim
 
dakemi said:
Grrrrrrr......����
what would you do?
Click to expand...

Blame it on TH and remind him everyday how your beautiful pool water makes his ugly calcium stains so apparent ;)

I'd live with it and start saving up for a new plaster job. Then I'd hire user onBalance and his crew to do the work :D


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I had calcium scale and was able to reduce and finally eliminate over a period of time. It isn't a quick fix, and I don't know if it will work for removing the stains. I had no stains, just a layer of calcium scale.

When using PoolMath, after you have put in all your numbers you will notice a field at the bottom of the chart labeled CSI (calcite saturation index). This number should always be between -0.6 and +0.6, with a normal goal as close to zero as possible. Any further on the positive side causes calcium to come out of suspension and be deposited of surfaces as scale. Any further on the negative side and the water becomes corrosive, dissolving calcium, and can even dissolve it right out of your plaster or concrete. The trick, if you currently have scale, is to keep the CSI always on the negative side, but not let if get below that -0.6 limit. There are several factors that combine to produce the CSI, (temp, TA, CH) but the one you have the most control of is the pH. If you carefully monitor and control the CSI, always staying between -0.6 and 0, over time it will remove scale from the pool without damage. But, it takes a lot of time and patience.
 
Well, here is a practical list of options (all tongue-in-cheek aside)-

1. Do nothing and live with it. Keep your water balanced and aim for a negative CSI to ensure no more scaling;
2. No-drain acid wash**;
3. Drain, acid wash and refill;
4. Renovate pool with a new plaster job

**No-Drain Acid Wash - I have only ever read about this and I have no practical experience with this technique. Basically in a no-drain acid wash you leave your water in the pool, drop the TA to 0 by adding lots of acid and then maintain a very low pH for a specified period of time. The pool water then becomes very corrosive to plaster and etches away the calcium carbonate at the surface of the pool plaster along with any calcium scale. After the etching time is up, you then add back alkalinity to the water with baking soda and bring the pH up to normal. I have to imagine that this process leaves your water full of calcium hardness and probably requires at a minimum a partial drain and refill adding to the expense. Again, I've only heard of this process and don't know anymore specifics than that.

If you have the time and money to fix this, then the best advice is to call the plastering company that did the original plaster job or some other plastering contractors in your area and ask for their analysis and advice. They can certainly give you estimates for acid washing and plastering jobs so that you can make a fully informed decision.
 
You will need to keep the pH in the 7.0-7.2 range and TA around 70 to prevent further calcium scale from forming. Do not use any more Calcium products in the pool ever. Your area has hard enough water as it is! Consider doing an acid wash after swim season is over to get rid of the scale. You can read more about it here: Pool School - Calcium Scaling
 

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We had some calcium scaling / nodules building up in our pool prior to using the TFP method. We also have some microfractures on the plaster. We were quoted an acid wash price of a few thousand bucks. Not an option. Pentair came out and examined them as a favor to my pool builder. Tech jumped in the pool, took out a pocket knife and knocked them off. We then took some pumice stone and worked it on the areas a bit and got it much smoother. Since then and following TFP, they've not come back

I've not been following each post on the 20 pages of this thread, but like you I wanted it to be perfect with no discontinuities in color, etc. Had to realize it wasn't going to be that way and getting rid of the nodules and following TFP made it 1000x better. I don't even "see" them anymore.
 
zea3 said:
You will need to keep the pH in the 7.0-7.2 range and TA around 70 to prevent further calcium scale from forming. Do not use any more Calcium products in the pool ever. Your area has hard enough water as it is! Consider doing an acid wash after swim season is over to get rid of the scale. You can read more about it here: Pool School - Calcium Scaling
Click to expand...

I just redid the tests:
pH=7.5
FC=7.5
CC=1.0
CYA=40
TA=100
CH=575
CSI=.13
Unsure of pool temp, put my refrig therm in, part of it came apart and dropped to the bottom and before I could fish it out, the robot "ate"it. Really, can't make this stuff up!!
Gonna guess 70 degrees or so.
Thank you ModSquad, i re-read Pool School- Scaling. TH said something like "no way Jose" cept more colorful to the idea of draining even 1/3 and refilling (suggestion on correcting high CH).

I thank everyone for the input. I'm considering ALL options carefully and
Yup.......blame TH!!

But, for real, I'll ponder the good advise and devise the next plan of action.
 
Dropping the pH down around 7.2 will lower both the TA and the CSI. If you want to control and maybe even remove some scale you'll need to keep it slightly on the negative side. Anytime it's positive you are adding not removing scale.
 
MarianParoo said:
70? I highly doubt that!!! Here in IL, I am approaching 90!
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Water is 73 degrees by my remote oven thermometer and 71 by TH's "gun looking" laser thermometer.

- - - Updated - - -

Its been a weird summer. Lots of thunder storms, even hail a few days ago.

Re lowering the pH, I have a product called hth pH minus, the active ingredient is 92% sodium bisulfate. Is that the same as Muriatic Acid? Comparable? Or should I dump it and get Muriatic Acid?
 
chiefwej said:
I had calcium scale and was able to reduce and finally eliminate over a period of time. It isn't a quick fix, and I don't know if it will work for removing the stains. I had no stains, just a layer of calcium scale.

When using PoolMath, after you have put in all your numbers you will notice a field at the bottom of the chart labeled CSI (calcite saturation index). This number should always be between -0.6 and +0.6, with a normal goal as close to zero as possible. Any further on the positive side causes calcium to come out of suspension and be deposited of surfaces as scale. Any further on the negative side and the water becomes corrosive, dissolving calcium, and can even dissolve it right out of your plaster or concrete. The trick, if you currently have scale, is to keep the CSI always on the negative side, but not let if get below that -0.6 limit. There are several factors that combine to produce the CSI, (temp, TA, CH) but the one you have the most control of is the pH. If you carefully monitor and control the CSI, always staying between -0.6 and 0, over time it will remove scale from the pool without damage. But, it takes a lot of time and patience.
Click to expand...

Willing to give it a try.

- - - Updated - - -

eqbob said:
We had some calcium scaling / nodules building up in our pool prior to using the TFP method. We also have some microfractures on the plaster. We were quoted an acid wash price of a few thousand bucks. Not an option. Pentair came out and examined them as a favor to my pool builder. Tech jumped in the pool, took out a pocket knife and knocked them off. We then took some pumice stone and worked it on the areas a bit and got it much smoother. Since then and following TFP, they've not come back

I've not been following each post on the 20 pages of this thread, but like you I wanted it to be perfect with no discontinuities in color, etc. Had to realize it wasn't going to be that way and getting rid of the nodules and following TFP made it 1000x better. I don't even "see" them anymore.
Click to expand...

I've been known to be an OCD perfectionist, but the stain, or scale occupies 75% of the pool, sides and bottom. So I really want to minimize it....besides, I have an honor bet with TH.
 
If you only have that bottle left, you can use it up, but it's not advisable to use dry acids long term. You will build up sulfates in the water which is not good for plaster pools or salt water chlorine generators. That's why TFP recommends using Muriatic acid.


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