Lighting wiring and GFCI breaker

[Zalick]

During diagnosis of a non functioning light In my pool (open ground at a wire nut) I discovered something that seemed odd to me.

I have a Pentair controller. The attached picture shows the switch for my pool light and my spa light. The pool switch is top right (with pen tester on the line to light). The spa switch is bottom left.

You can see hot to the pool is provided by a jumper from the spa.

The spa hot is provided by a hot from a 15amp GFCI breaker.

The spa neutral is connected to the GFCI breaker but the pool neutral is connected directly to the neutral bus.

Since the GFCI breaker cannot measure the current on the pool neutral, it seems like it is not protected by the GFCI. Is this correct?

Is there a reason it’s wired this way versus each light having its own GFCI breaker?

The panel has room for another breaker and I’m inclined to install another 15amp GFCI breaker for the pool light and have each light be on it’s own circuit.

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

From what you described turning on the pool light should immediately trip the GFCI breaker.

A GFCI CB will not work if it does not have the neutral connected to it.

Connect the spa and pool light neutrals together with a pigtail using a wire nut and connect the pigtail to the GFCI CB neutral screw.

Show us pics of the light neutral wiring you described.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Z,

Are you sure??? I see no reason to have two GFCI breakers, but if wired the way you say it is, it seems to me, your current GFCI would pop every time you turned on the Pool light.

The whole point of a GFCI is that it ensures the same amount of current leaving the GFCI is equal to the current coming back to the GFCI on the neutral connection..



Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Zalick]

Here is a picture of the GFCI.

You can see the neutral connected to the breaker which is coming from the spa light. When I disconnect that neutral the spa light doesn’t work.

The neutral in the next picture by my finger is the neutral for the pool light. When I disconnect it the pool light doesn’t work.

The neutral for the spa and pool may be (or must be?) connected in a j box elsewhere.

And a picture of the hot jumper.

 

[ajw22]

Power off the power to the panel.

Disconnect the neutrals for the spa light and pool light.

Use your multimeter and check for continuity between the neutral wires and see if they are connected.

There is something in your wiring you don’t understand and just seeing one side of wire connections does not help us help you.

 

[Zalick]

Power off the power to the panel.

Disconnect the neutrals for the spa light and pool light.

Use your multimeter and check for continuity between the neutral wires and see if they are connected.

There is something in your wiring you don’t understand and just seeing one side of wire connections does not help us help you.

Thanks for helping me figure this out. Something is definitely confusing me. Probably should draw it out on paper for myself instead of trying to visualize in my head.

There is no continuity between what I thought was the pool neutral and the spa neutral on the breaker.

The neutrals are connected in j boxes by the house.

The right box is the spa and the left is the pool.

I’m going to turn both lights on and flip the breaker to make sure both are protected for peace of mind.

 

[ajw22]

On the right J box there are three white neutral wires nutted together and two red and black wires nutted together.

Are there two lights in the spa?

There is more complexity in the right J box then the left.

 

[Zalick]

On the right J box there are three white neutral wires nutted together and two red and black wires nutted together.

Are there two lights in the spa?

There is more complexity in the right J box then the left.

There is only a single light in the pool and single in the spa.

Both lights are 120v.

 

[JamesW]

Red is the main 4 wire supply with 2 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground from the breaker box.

Blue is the pool or spa light.

Green is power to feed the second light.

Black is the pool or spa light.

Both lights share the same neutral.

Each light has its own power supply.

 

[JamesW]

Show the entire power box.

Zooming into individual components makes it hard to follow what's what.

 

[Newdude]

One feed (2 legs), a jumper and 2 lights leaving.

Dang it James beat my sketch

 

[ajw22]

Red is the main 4 wire supply with 2 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground from the breaker box.
.

Why are there 2 hots for a 120V light circuit?

if both lights are connected to one CB then you have 1 hot and 1 neutral.

2 hots would say there are two 120V CBs. And then you need two neutrals if they are both GFCI CBs.

Or this is an old pool that was originally wired as 2 hots with one shared neutral which does not work with GFCI CBs.

 

[JamesW]

Can you turn the lights on and off independently?

 

[JamesW]

Go from the circuit breaker to to separate relays to control the lights independently.

This requires 2 hots and 1 neutral.

 

[ajw22]

Go from the circuit breaker to to separate relays to control the lights independently.

This requires 2 hots and 1 neutral.

You are saying those are the two wires from the LOAD side of the two relays.

 

[ajw22]

@Zalick what makes you think this neutral line is connected to the lights?

 

[ajw22]

Where does the purple wire from the upper right LOAD change to a red wire in the J box?

A black and a purple wire feed from the light relays to the J box but the J box show a black and red wire.

 

[JamesW]

The main feed wire is a 4-wire Romex wire, so the wires have to connect to the Romex at some point.

It looks like the Romex is solid wire and the wires at the relays are stranded.

In any case, we cannot see where the Romex starts.

We need to see the whole box.

 

[Zalick]

Show the entire power box.

Zooming into individual components makes it hard to follow what's what.

Thanks again for all the help showing me how this is wired.

I think My error was made when I made the assumption that the feed to the j boxes was coming from the Main house panel since it came from the crawl space

Here is a pic of the whole box.

Can you turn the lights on and off independently?

Yes I can.

 

[Zalick]

@Zalick what makes you think this neutral line is connected to the lights?

It came out of the same conduit and seemed to match with the line for the pool light. The sheathing is stripped down too far for me to tell without pulling apart the conduit.