Easytouch PSL: Feature Circuit used as Fill-Line with Sprinkler Valve

[paul999]

I have seen previous posts about using a sprinkler valve as an AutoFill. My understanding is that the recommended solution from Jimrahbe is to use the 3-pin VLV-A or VLV-B feature circuits to provide 24VAC to the AUX-7 relay in the Easytouch. These fc's are designed to usually be used for additional valve actuators such as Solar. Unfortunately the PSL is severely limited in available circuits, relays and schedules. My 4 relays are used. The Special Purpose bank of relay connectors has Solar Booster labeled, but apparently does not have an AUX EX, so I cannot add a relay for generic use.

However, my question is: Is there any downside to controlling the solenoid directly from 2 of the three conductors on VLV-B? I could then assign a schedule to the feature circuit and turn on / off the fill-line as needed from ScreenLogic.

The solenoid apparently has less power draw than an actuator.
Solenoid: Power: 24 VAC 50/60 cycle; Inrush current: 0.41 A (9.9 VA); Holding current: 0.28 A (6.7 VA)
Actuator: Power: 24 VAC 50/60 cycle; current: 0.75 A
Thank you for any feedback.

 

[Bperry]

I have seen previous posts about using a sprinkler valve as an AutoFill. My understanding is that the recommended solution from Jimrahbe is to use the 3-pin VLV-A or VLV-B feature circuits to provide 24VAC to the AUX-7 relay in the Easytouch. These fc's are designed to usually be used for additional valve actuators such as Solar. Unfortunately the PSL is severely limited in available circuits, relays and schedules. My 4 relays are used. The Special Purpose bank of relay connectors has Solar Booster labeled, but apparently does not have an AUX EX, so I cannot add a relay for generic use.

However, my question is: Is there any downside to controlling the solenoid directly from 2 of the three conductors on VLV-B? I could then assign a schedule to the feature circuit and turn on / off the fill-line as needed from ScreenLogic.

The solenoid apparently has less power draw than an actuator.
Solenoid: Power: 24 VAC 50/60 cycle; Inrush current: 0.41 A (9.9 VA); Holding current: 0.28 A (6.7 VA)
Actuator: Power: 24 VAC 50/60 cycle; current: 0.75 A
Thank you for any feedback.

Can’t help on the easytouch details but find out the duty cycle of the solenoid first. Many times they are very short (several minutes) and so might not be good enough for an auto fill. If the sprinkler valve uses a solenoid, it should be ok or maybe it takes advantage of water to cool it.

 

[paul999]

Thanks for your fast response, Bperry. I have not been able to find the rated duty cycle of the Orbit solenoid, but I don't expect to use the fill line for more than 15-30 minutes per day, similar to any sprinkler circuit. If I need to turn it on for any extended period, I'll turn on the valve manually
My main concern is whether my EasyTouch electronics could be damaged by using the VLV-B feature connector in this way.

 

[JamesW]

Can you show your circuit board?

 

[Ahultin]

If your board is a new enough revision and you are handy with a soldering iron, you could un-neuter you psl per this thread :

realized I never posted about the Lite...

Lite boards come with a jumper wire on the J23/Modtelspa port. Snip that off, and provided you've got a later firmware (I can never remember which one) it won't be a Lite anymore.

Then upgrade it to an et8 per this thread :

If you have a Lite board, snip that J23 jumper and power it up... it should no longer be a Lite. If that doesn't work, it's likely because you've got an old firmware version and you can update the firmware to make it an ET4 (and then add both resistors to make it an ET8). If the board won't run you can resolder the jumper to go back to a Lite.

Add a @$20 relay
Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB DC24

https://a.co/d/e6dTlAc

And use a solenoid ball valve per @Dirk directions here:
Post in thread 'Intellicenter feature controlled autofill with sprinkler valve' Intellicenter feature controlled autofill with sprinkler valve

 

[paul999]

Thank you for the great advice. I didn't realize you could snip a jumper to de-neuter a PSL board. That will really help in providing addition schedules. I'll open up the cabinet and take photos of the board. I had it installed in 2017, and the SLConfig states firmware is 1.0.0, but I'll check the board.

 

[Poolbreh]

However, my question is: Is there any downside to controlling the solenoid directly from 2 of the three conductors on VLV-B? I could then assign a schedule to the feature circuit and turn on / off the fill-line as needed from ScreenLogic.

This is the way I’ve always done it. But Jim must have a reason for using a relay.

 

[Jimrahbe]

At the time that I added a fill line, my EasyTouch was still under warranty and I wanted to make sure that I did not do anything that had the possibility of voiding it.

I used a separate 24 VAC transformer and relay that I drive from the Aux X relay port.

There is no reason not to use Valve A or B if the solenoid does not need too much current.

I don't think I ever said you could not do it that way, I just did it differently.

(On the other hand, I can't remember what I had at lunch today, so who knows.)

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ahultin]

This is the way I’ve always done it. But Jim must have a reason for using a relay.

My reasoning was the same as @Jimrahbe my intellicenter is still under warranty so I did not want to drive something that could be deemed to void warranty. I also ran into the issue that @Dirk solution avoids, I melted the sprinkler valve solenoid as it appears it was not intended for ac voltage present (or not maybe just my @2.5hr schedule times) on the valve controller. When this happened it caused a direct short, not sure what the impact could have been had it not been driven thru the relay.

 

[paul999]

Thanks again, Jim. Your original post did say you just did it differently. Your memory did not fail you
I wanted to verify the direct VLV-B method rather than risk frying the board before I moved ahead.

 

[paul999]

Hi,
I've attached photos of my PSL board. The board is Rev F, dated 6/22/16 and firmware is Rev. 1.0.0.0. J23 is present. Not sure if this would be recent enough, or if the firmware needs updating to work w/o J23. I couldn't see R41 and R42, but I could feel a single resistor in that area.
Another thought I had was to move the spa jets pump from AUX1 to the 'On with Spa' location. I realize this would mean the jets would be on whenever the spa is on, and that the jets would cool the water while the heater is trying to heat the spa, but it would free up an egg-timer schedule, and I believe I could add a 5th relay driven by AUX1 for the fill line.

 

[Ahultin]

Are you able to solder the jumper back if it doesn't work? If so, snip it and try. Otherwise @ogdento might know of that board revision is new enough to hack

 

[paul999]

Are you able to solder the jumper back if it doesn't work? If so, snip it and try. Otherwise @ogdento might know of that board revision is new enough to hack

I can do that, but I'd rather wait to see if anyone can confirm the firmware first. I'm hoping it would be the same as ET 2.140, released in 10/10/2014.

 

[ogdento]

I think you're good to snip the jumper. The lite firmware reports differently than the "full" easytouch... The lite will always be 1.x whereas the full (on boards after may 2008) will be 2.x.

Said another way, the last time I snipped a jumper, the lite showed 1.x firmware before I cut it, and showed 2.150 afterward. And I just temporarily jumpered a 2.180 ET8 and it showed up as a 1.050 PSL4... removed the jumped and it's back to a 2.180 ET8.

 

[paul999]

I think you're good to snip the jumper. The lite firmware reports differently than the "full" easytouch... The lite will always be 1.x whereas the full (on boards after may 2008) will be 2.x.

Said another way, the last time I snipped a jumper, the lite showed 1.x firmware before I cut it, and showed 2.150 afterward. And I just temporarily jumpered a 2.180 ET8 and it showed up as a 1.050 PSL4... removed the jumped and it's back to a 2.180 ET8.

Thanks so much for confirming this. I'll go ahead. Even without the ET-8 resistor, I will still have the extra schedules available in ET-4, and AUX-EX

 

[ogdento]

hey you're welcome! I'm not really confirming whether you've got the right firmware... just that you can cut the jumper and you're not going to hurt anything. At one point I think they had separate files for the Lite and Full easytouch boards, so if it doesn't work you'll just reconnect the jumper as ahultin said.

If you're worried about soldering it back on if it doesn't work, just cut it one place - leaving the jumper - and kind of separate the jumper wire a bit, the idea being you can reconnect it and dab a bit of solder on it.

 

[paul999]

hey you're welcome! I'm not really confirming whether you've got the right firmware... just that you can cut the jumper and you're not going to hurt anything. At one point I think they had separate files for the Lite and Full easytouch boards, so if it doesn't work you'll just reconnect the jumper as ahultin said.

If you're worried about soldering it back on if it doesn't work, just cut it one place - leaving the jumper - and kind of separate the jumper wire a bit, the idea being you can reconnect it and dab a bit of solder on it.

Hi, I finally was able to cut and separate the J23 jumper. Unfortunately, the board still reports as PSL4 Rev 1.0. Since the board sticker is dated 6/22/2016, I had hoped it had the later firmware. The good news is that everything is still working as before.

 

[ogdento]

Ok interesting, yours must have what I think of as the firmware before they merged them all into one file. I thought the "merge" had happened by 6/22/16, but it seems not. Next step is to update to the latest fw

 

[paul999]

Ok interesting, yours must have what I think of as the firmware before they merged them all into one file. I thought the "merge" had happened by 6/22/16, but it seems not. Next step is to update to the latest fw

yup. I downloaded the firmware sometime ago. I have both easytouch 2160 and 2190 versions. I followed the thread on updating the firmware and have the USBDM and other parts on order. Meanwhile, I've installed a couple of relays and will add the resistor.
I noticed I have a zip file "easytouch-lite2160-1020.zip", when I expand it, it contains all the regular 2160 files. No mention of 'lite' in the contents. I guess this is when Pentair made the change, at v 1.020

 

[ogdento]

Yeah you've got it right. When I started fiddling with the lite boards the giveaway was that the config files for the lite and full easytouch boards used the same s19/binary file. I just looked back through my fw files and for 2140 there were separate s19 files for the lite and full boards, and then in 2150 onward they are the same.