Wiring a SWG with VS pump

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
538
Marrietta Ga
Am I missing something or why can't I just use a current sensor to turn my SWG on and off. I know the pump is 220V but shouldn't really matter if I get one leg, if it's running allow power to SWG..If not don't..
I have wired everything including replacing the breaker box so nothing I couldn't handle :)
My pump doesn't have a relay

Here is what I am looking at.

106662

 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
3,497
Damascus, MD
Interesting concept. In theory it should work as long as the pump has the power cut when off. Many VSPs are always powered on. You'd also need to get a current sensing switch that does 220 volt (unless of course you have a 110 volt SWG). All of those current sensing switches that I have seen are 120 volt. I installed one for a booster dryer vent fan that comes on when the dryer is on. Hopefully someone comes along with more knowledge.
 

KandTFromPhx

Gold Supporter
May 31, 2019
24
Phoenix, AZ
My Pureline Prime VS will be delivered on Tuesday. Based on my reading of the manual it has a Digital Input Circuit that allows you control the motor with a low voltage circuit. While using a current sensing relay would be easier, my way would use the timer to bring on the pump and SWCG but also allow me to use the controls on the motor to manually bring on the pump with out having the SWCG fire up. I have my timer setup to bring the pump on and off throughout the day (to avoid running it all day long at Peak Rates).

At some point I'll probably wire in a 4 way switch so I can easily control which speed is used when being controlled by the timer (the pump has 4 digital inputs). During the monsoon season I could quickly select a higher RPM.

I'm probably overthinking it, but heh, that's what I do!

-Ken
106685
 

KandTFromPhx

Gold Supporter
May 31, 2019
24
Phoenix, AZ
Apologies; I guess a better explanation would have helped.

The pump has power 24/7 but will only run when:
A. The timer energizes the relay or
B. I manually start the pump using the Override button (or I may do this with a spring wound 4 hour timer in the 12volt circuit)

The SWCG is only energized by the timer, thus I can precisely control how long it runs even if I manually bring the pump on. For instance, 106689on the weekend I might decide I want the pump to run all day but I don't necessarily want to SWCG to run all day long too!

The manual for the pump is somewhat confusing so I may have to do some trial and error.
 
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laprjns

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 14, 2012
356
Ellington, CT
B. I manually start the pump using the Override button
Sorry but I don't think your plan will work with regards to you manually starting the pump.
VGreen 165 User Manual Section 9 Control with Digital Inputs said:
NOTE: The digital inputs have the highest priority amongst all the inputs (i.e., keypad, serial, or digital). Therefore the serial commands as well as the User Interface inputs will be ignored when a digital input is present
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
538
Marrietta Ga
Have to say I am almost scared to convert to SWG.." hook it up wrong and BOOM" when I can buy chlorine :)

I did a google search and not a lot of reports ( that I can find ) about explosions. Could be the manufacturers are shutting them down
 

KandTFromPhx

Gold Supporter
May 31, 2019
24
Phoenix, AZ
Sorry but I don't think your plan will work with regards to you manually starting the pump.
Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I read that also. What I got from it was that as long as there was no DI (digital input) the Override button would work. Once a DI was received it would take priority. Thus, I could bring the pump on manually then, once the timer activates the relay, my timer activated program would resume. As I said, I may have to do some trial and error. In the end I'll probably go with the spring wound timer scenario I showed in the second drawing....provided it functions as expected.

-Ken
 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
3,497
Damascus, MD
It’s very simple to wire a swg power from the load of the pump.
With a variable speed pump, it is always on would that work in this scenario? Also you want the pump running fast enough like say 1000rpms. Is this possible without using an adjustable current sensing switch? I wish the industry would catch up with current technology. The pump should have a simple signal wire for when it is safe to run a SWG and the SWG should have an input that accepts this. Either that or the pump should have a relay to activate the SWG (some do but most do not).
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
538
Marrietta Ga
Cirupool claims with their neW system you only need power. They said the built in flow sensor and other technologies are enough. Again just relaying information
 

laprjns

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 14, 2012
356
Ellington, CT
What I got from it was that as long as there was no DI (digital input) the Override button would work.
You are correct. One of the reason why I chose to power my SWCG with 120v is that I could put it on its own breaker or put a switch in the line and manually disconnect it from power, essentially achieving the same results as what you are doing.
The pump should have a simple signal wire for when it is safe to run a SWG and the SWG should have an input that accepts this. Either that or the pump should have a relay to activate the SWG (some do but most do not).
It's not the pump manufacturers responsibility to control power to a SWC that may or may not be part of the system. Auxiliary relays are available on some pumps, but you have to paid for it usually by buying a higher power pump. The Pureline 1.65 Hp does not have an aux relay but for $250 more you can get their 2.7 hp which does have one. I really didn't need the extra 1 hp so I went with the 1.65 hp and for another ~$75 I added the current sensing relay.
 

KandTFromPhx

Gold Supporter
May 31, 2019
24
Phoenix, AZ
They said the built in flow sensor and other technologies are enough
Maybe it's just me, but I consider the flow sensor to be a 'safety' not 'primary' control; in this scenario you should really have both. Because it is a safety, I believe it should
not be relied upon to control the operation of a potentially dangerous device
.

In my 20's I worked as a boiler technician. Someone who had worked on a boiler before me decided they didn't need a primary and a safety so they used the safety as both. When the control, working as both a primary and safety, failed there was no safety. The 3rd degree burns taught me a valuable lesson. When safety is a concern, you should always have a primary control and you should have safety... and you should test it occasionally.
 

PoolGate

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
3,497
Damascus, MD
Maybe it's just me, but I consider the flow sensor to be a 'safety' not 'primary' control; in this scenario you should really have both. Because it is a safety, I believe it should
not be relied upon to control the operation of a potentially dangerous device
.

In my 20's I worked as a boiler technician. Someone who had worked on a boiler before me decided they didn't need a primary and a safety so they used the safety as both. When the control, working as both a primary and safety, failed there was no safety. The 3rd degree burns taught me a valuable lesson. When safety is a concern, you should always have a primary control and you should have safety... and you should test it occasionally.
FYI: The flow switch is the primary control and what the SWG uses to determine if it should run or not. But, the flow switch should not be the only control.
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
538
Marrietta Ga
FYI: The flow switch is the primary control and what the SWG uses to determine if it should run or not. But, the flow switch should not be the only control.
Here is what circupool says. I dont think it is the only protection. I asked about the risk of cell explosions

Understood. That was possible a few decades ago with older salt systems that did not have sensors and other technology to stop the salt system from working even when air built up in the cell. You can let them know that with complete certainty that has never happened with these and would not be remotely expected. Let me know if there is anything else we can do to help.

Nathan
CircuPool Support
888-206-9938
www.circupool.com/help
 

Pool_Medic

In The Industry
Apr 1, 2018
899
Bangor Maine
Odd because Hayward’s aquarite strictly says it should be wired off the hot on the pump. Flow switches can be stuck in a closed position regardless if there is water flow.....kaboooom.
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
538
Marrietta Ga
Odd because Hayward’s aquarite strictly says it should be wired off the hot on the pump. Flow switches can be stuck in a closed position regardless if there is water flow.....kaboooom.
Dont know but seems like they could add safety sensors that detect no water or gases and shut the system down fairly simple..Wish Circupool would share a schematic :)
 

Pool_Medic

In The Industry
Apr 1, 2018
899
Bangor Maine
Certainly they could for $$$$$

For the amount of salt systems sold and 1 or 2 explosions, it’s not a huge issue, plus any lawyer worth his weight in salt could argue it either way.