Why does PB keep ask WHY a SWG?

miles267

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Sep 5, 2016
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Arkansas
Before we built our pool, we had decided on a SWG and met with multiple PBs. When asked whether we Chlorine or Salt, each PB went out of their way to ask WHY salt, as if trying to talk us out of it. It quickly became annoying.

Now, after pool is finished, I take a water sample in to be tested. Felt like it was right thing to do, if only to check my own results. PB's store associate again inquires -- may I ask why you chose salt?

What is the deal? Why do PBs and stores feel the need to press this issue, particularly when they sell salt???


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For most pool builders it's a question of knowledge level. From what I see, many are great contractors but very poor chemists. They have no real idea how to maintain a pool after it's built.

As to the guy in the pool store, he loses sales if you have a SWCG. Stop going there, generally their testing is poor at best.
 
To add to Tim's comments, read this thread -

Texas vs. SWG - What is the deal

PB's nowadays are heavily pushing the "alternatives-to-chlorine / alternative sanitizer / low-chlorine" pool equipment because of the added chemical complexity of using an SWG. And by "complexity" I mean nothing more than knowing that solid forms of chlorine (dichlor and trichlor) are acidic while liquid chlorine and SWG's are so slightly alkaline that they are practically pH neutral. SO what that means in practice is that you go from using solid chlorine and having to increase the pH and TA over time to using an SWG where the pH has to be lowered most of the time.

Also, PBs at first sold SWGs quite enthusiastically as "miracle equipment" that meant you never had to to do pool maintenance again. Unknowing customers who may or may not have been do-it-yourself'ers fell for this line and basically assumed they could swim in their pools without ever having to do too much work. Well, given enough time for that to play out, you can imagine the endless service calls that came for cloudy pools, SWGs that "seemingly" did not work (because they could not keep up with the algae blooms) and equipment ruined with scale because no one was paying attention to the pH of the water. The last part is a real doozy because damaged pool surfaces and equipment means warranty calls which the PBs and subs have to eat.

So, in an effort to limit warranty liabilities, subcontractors would tell PBs that they will only warranty work done if it's not an SWG pool and then PBs were forced to red-line their contracts when pool owners would ask for SWGs which, of course, would tick off the pool owner. But rather than try to understand the fundamentals of the issues and do a better job of educating their customers...well heck, just ban SWGs and push customers away from them.

Yet one more reason why TFP exists....
 
So wait a minute...

This is a question that is asked of YOU! Lets hear it, Why did you get a chlorine generator? If your pool builder tried to talk you out of it, that could only mean that you went out and did your own homework. What was your deciding factor?
 
I've been posed this questions several times from pool guys when I asked for quotes to convert to SWG and even our pool inspector when we bought our house w/ the pool 2 yrs ago and mentioned wanting to convert down the road. As someone else touched upon above, I def got the impression they wanted to be sure we were informed on what a salt pool actually is, and specifically that they frequently run into customers that have no idea it's still a chlorine pool & still does require some degree of maintenence. I was talking to a friend who had converted to SWG a year earlier, and when I mentioned this topic, turns out she was one of those customers. She had no idea she was still swimming in chlorine. TBH, I'm not sure she even believed me...
 
I think Pool Clown makes a good point. You should wear that SWG badge proudly. You did your homework and understand how your SWG keeps your pool sanitary and clean. You should look forward to the opportunity to explain your decision.

You should also stay out of the pool store. If you test with a TF-100 or K-2006, pool store results are simply not as good and you are only allowing confusion to creep in. Trust your own testing.
 
Quality of reagents. Plus, nobody is going to take more care, doing the tests, then you. You will make sure that the vials are clean, that you take your time and make sure that each drop is good. Plus you are in it to only add what your pool needs, they are in it to sell you stuff.

The TF-100 kit is designed to work alongside TFPC so it includes a larger quantity of the tests that you really need to take control and care of your pool.
 
I read the liked article and there is a discussion about rusting with many comments saying it's bunk. Yet this article:

Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators

states:

Adding salt to the pool does very slightly increase the risk of corrosion. Hardly any SWG owners experience a problem with corrosion. Because the exact risks for some of the materials used in pools are not well understood, there has been some debate in the industry about the use of SWGs.

The two most common situations where damage has occurred are in indoor pools, where the FC level has been allowed to get way too high, and when you have one of the softer kinds of natural stone (sandstone, limestone, etc) above the water line, and the stone gets splashed regularly, for example in a waterfall. Even in these two situations, problems are rare.


I also read somewhere on TFP that brass screws should be used for in-pool ladders so wonder if that's true. The reason I'm asking is I'm considering switching myself in the next year and wonder about this issue. For me it probably NBD as there is no metal near the pool and no ladder.
 
Quality of reagents. Plus, nobody is going to take more care, doing the tests, then you. You will make sure that the vials are clean, that you take your time and make sure that each drop is good. Plus you are in it to only add what your pool needs, they are in it to sell you stuff.

What is the recommended way to clean test vials? I empty but don't rinse out or wash the bottle I use to collect pool samples. Also, I've only been rinsing my test vials with pool water after testing.


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I read the liked article and there is a discussion about rusting with many comments saying it's bunk. Yet this article:

Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators

states:

Adding salt to the pool does very slightly increase the risk of corrosion. Hardly any SWG owners experience a problem with corrosion. Because the exact risks for some of the materials used in pools are not well understood, there has been some debate in the industry about the use of SWGs.

The two most common situations where damage has occurred are in indoor pools, where the FC level has been allowed to get way too high, and when you have one of the softer kinds of natural stone (sandstone, limestone, etc) above the water line, and the stone gets splashed regularly, for example in a waterfall. Even in these two situations, problems are rare.


I also read somewhere on TFP that brass screws should be used for in-pool ladders so wonder if that's true. The reason I'm asking is I'm considering switching myself in the next year and wonder about this issue. For me it probably NBD as there is no metal near the pool and no ladder.

Salinity affects corrosion in two distinct ways for metals. First, it increases the TDS (conductivity) of the solution thus allowing galvanic corrosion to occur. Pure water by itself is not a very good conductor but, once you start adding "stuff" to it, it can conduct currents. Secondly, salinity will mean greater chloride ion (Cl-) concentrations and chloride increases the likelihood of pitting corrosion in steels and stainless steels because it interferes with the reformation of passive films (mostly in the form of chromium oxide) when low pH situations arise. However, it must be stated clearly that pH is the dominant factor in the initiation of corrosion. You must have low pH conditions (or very anodic voltage) to initiate corrosion.

As for stone materials, salinity plays a role in the degradation (not really "corrosion" as is stated above) of stone materials. Essentially, water mixed with salts drives these salts into the porous spaces of stone materials (like soft limestone). When the water evaporates, it leaves behind concentrated salt solutions that begin to deposit salt inside the stone matrix. The recrystallization pressure form the salt coming out of solution causes a lot of stress on the stone material and begins to fracture it. Eventually these micro-cracks and fissures will start to multiply and connect together and that will cause spalling of the stone material. Chlorides can cause this but you typically need very high concentrations of chlorides to see an effect. Sulfate salts (like those you get from using dry acid or non-chlorine shock) are much, MUCH worse. Sulfates typically have much larger recrystallization pressures associated with them and will more easily fracture stone materials.

As for brass in a pool, that would depend on the type of brass used. Straight Cu/Zn brasses would not be any better than steels and could lead to copper contamination. Marine brasses that contain aluminum and tin as additives are much better in saline environments. However, as stated above, everything is driven by pH. Once the pH drops too low, or if any anodic currents are present, then metals will corrode. So I really see no advantage to using brass over stainless steel. The first order of business is to always maintain good water quality (pH, TA, etc., all in ranges that keep the saturation index near zero).
 
Every PB in my area was against SWG. My wife really wanted a salt pool for the feel, then I did what I do, I went online and read. I read and read. At the end, it seemed to me like going with a SWG and keeping things at more constant doses seems like a much better way to maintain a pool of water - something that can be a breeding ground if not managed correctly.

Of course, I have yet to put any of this into action since our pool has never been fired up.

I had them add a sacrificial anode when they did the plumbing - not sure if this really makes any difference, but I had read somewhere that it could potentially help prevent corrosion at other points (heater, pump, railings, etc) if for some reason there was a slight current in the water. I also had them add a check-valve between the heater and the SWG.

When it comes time for sealing the concrete decking around the pool, the concrete guys said that they have some different coatings (aquapel or something - can't quite remember, etc) that can help to make sure that I don't end up with any pitting - I'm worried about pitting between the ladder and the slide / diving board, but this could all be just me over-thinking things.
 
I had a pool guy come out and remove my inline puck chlorinator and replace it with a SWG that I had purchased online. He could hardly believe it! He said that 99% of the time he was doing just the opposite with most pools: Removing a SWG and replacing it with an inline chlorinator. He even advised me to keep the chlorinator in a safe place because he was betting that I would want to switch back.

Nope, no thanks. SWG makes it so easy, it's ridiculous!
 
IHe said that 99% of the time he was doing just the opposite with most pools...

That's because 99% of his customers don't know the first thing about pool care and maintenance. Most of them think an SWG means you never have to test or balance your water ever again...heck, even that pool guy probably doesn't know the first thing about SWG's or how they work. He likely just knows what buttons to push so he can check the salt levels and add salt whenever the cell tells him too :brickwall:

You did the right thing....
 
Some comments regarding prior posts...

You are more likely to get corrosion from an improperly bonded system than you will from salt(ed) pool water.

Stainless steel (good quality), and even then, monitor it's condition. And brass or bronze. It is one of the more softer metals, so it should be monitored for erosion.

Rinse the vial(s) before and after the test.
 
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