which Hayward pump do I want?

ccoager · May 30, 2012

It's time for a new pump and I need some help finding the right pump for my pool. I have a 16x32x8 chlorine pool with a Hayward heater. Does 1hp sound right for my pool size? Can someone break down the differences between these models?

EcoStar
EcoStar SVRS
TriStar
Super II
Super Pump
Max-Flo XL
Max-Flo II

Also, is the EcoStar SVRS really going to return my investment in a few years? I checked out the calculator on Hayward's site and was a little suspicious on the numbers. Can I even use this pump when I have a heater that requires a minimum GPM? What do you think?
http://www.haywardnet.com/inground/prod ... ulator.cfm

JasonLion · May 30, 2012

Their calculator exaggerates for most situations. Our rule of thumb is that a variable speed pump is worth it when your electricity costs are $0.20/kwh or higher. As long as that is true, using a variable speed is worth it even with flow rate requirements.

If your electric costs are below that you probably go with a two speed pump.

ccoager · May 30, 2012

What exactly am I looking for on my electric bill for this metric? "Electric Supply" ?

Bama Rambler · May 30, 2012

Call the utility and ask them what your rate is. They can tell you what the power costs you and if you're on a tiered system and if you're close to the border between tiers. If you're just over the border a more efficient pump may get you just under and that's an even bigger savings.

I'm not on a tiered system and don't have any outside lights or anything so I just took my entire bill and divided it by the kwh I used and got a cost per kwh including taxes and fees.

mas985 · May 30, 2012

I can give you an approximate payback time for each pump but I need the following:

Energy Cost ($/Kwh)
Pool Volume (g)
Suction Pipe Diameter (in)
Suction Parallel Runs
Suction Average Run Length (ft)
Suction Valves (#)
Pre-Gauge Pipe Size (in)
Filter type
Pump Center Line Above Water (ft)
Pressure Gauge Height Above Pump Center Line (ft)
Pressure Gauge (PSI)

Also, how many hours per day does the heater need to run?

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

@mas985 - I don't understand some of your questions but I'll try my best...

Energy Cost ($/Kwh) = $0.118/Kwh
Pool Volume (g) = 30600g
Suction Pipe Diameter (in) = 2"
Suction Parallel Runs = not sure what you asking?
Suction Average Run Length (ft) = 60' and 18'
Suction Valves (#) = 2
Pre-Gauge Pipe Size (in) = not sure what you are asking?
Filter type = hayward DE
Pump Center Line Above Water (ft) = <1'
Pressure Gauge Height Above Pump Center Line (ft) = 27"
Pressure Gauge (PSI) = 12PSI

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

Suction Parallel Runs = number of runs from the pool to the equipment pad. You stated there are two suction lengths but do they run all way from the pool to the equipment pad?

Pre-Gauge Pipe Size (in) = Pipe size between the pump and filter.

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

Suction Parallel Runs = They split right before the pump so the lines are completely separate. Does that answer your question?

Pre-Gauge Pipe Size (in) = 1' long and 2" diameter

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

I'm sorry I forgot to ask the most important thing. What is the model # of your current pump?

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

@mas985 - I honestly don't know, this pre-dates me. It is an old Hayward super pump, at least 4 years old but probably more like 10 years old. It is only 3/4 hp which from what I'm told is underspec'd.

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

Does it still have motor label? If so, what is the label HP?

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

I just looked, the model is Hayward SP-125-JS.

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

Unfortunately, that number doesn't mean much to me. Did it also have a HP rating on the label?

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

3/4 HP

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

Since you already have a very low HP pump, Superpumps are up rated, and you pay little for electricity you will probably see very little benefit in going with a two speed pump and it will take many months of operation before you payback the cost of a new pump. Even a VS will probably take over 60 months of operation for payback. The table below gives you all of the details. The first column is your current pump the analysis assumes that the two speeds and variable speed pumps are run 1/2 turnover at each of two speeds.

[table=2:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Summary[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]SP2605X7[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]SP3205EE[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]WFDS-24[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]SP2607X102S[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]SF-N2-1A[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]SF-N2-3/4A[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]IntelliFlo Variable Speed[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]SP3400VSP[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Speed 1 (RPM)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]2500[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]2500[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Speed 1 Flow Rate (GPM)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]49[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]55[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]65[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]54[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]59[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]50[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]55[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]55[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Speed 1 Run Time (hrs/day)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]10.46[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]9.31[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3.95[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]4.76[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]4.33[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]5.12[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]4.62[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]4.63[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Speed 2 (RPM)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]3450[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]1725[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]1725[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]1725[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]1725[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]1000[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]1000[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Speed 2 Flow Rate (GPM)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]49[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]55[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]32[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]27[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]29[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]25[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]22[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]22[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Speed 2 Run Time (hrs/day)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]0.00[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]0.00[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]7.89[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]9.52[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]8.67[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]10.25[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]11.55[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]11.59[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Total kwh/Month[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]302[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]298[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]280[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]257[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]269[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]263[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]184[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]146[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Pump Cost ($/Month)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$0[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$466[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$605[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$525[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$510[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$500[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$850[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$1,099[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Energy Cost ($/Month)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$35.69[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$35.17[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$33.10[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$30.35[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$31.80[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$31.00[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$21.75[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$17.21[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Relative Savings to Reference Pump ($/Month)[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$0.52[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$2.59[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$5.34[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$3.89[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$4.69[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$13.93[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]$18.48[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][tr:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5]Break Even (months) - Relative to first pump[/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5][/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]901[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]234[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]98[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]131[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]107[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]61[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][td:3isd4yj5][center:3isd4yj5]59[/center:3isd4yj5][/td:3isd4yj5][/tr:3isd4yj5][/table:3isd4yj5]

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

Thanks for the info Mark, that is excellent! I have a few follow up questions for you...

Seeing how I have a heater, are there any restrictions on minimum GPM that rule out any possible choices?

My pool guy suggests I should be using 1hp instead 3/4hp, do you concur?

The energy costs given, are these for speed 1 or 2 or does it not matter?

Do you have any figures for the Hayward SuperPump or Max-Flo?

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

Usually a heater will have a flow rate lower limit of around 40 GPM but you can always use high speed for heating. If you are using the heater all the time, then you probably would not want to use a two speed pump.

You have a 3/4 HP so why would you want to increase the size? Is it not working well enough?

For the two speed pumps, I assumed they would be running at 1/2 a turn at full speed and 1/2 turn at low speed. You can see the run time for each speed in the table. For single speed pumps, the run time is only for speed 1 and it is full speed.

The Superpump is under the columns labeled, SP2605X7 for your current pump and SP2607X102S for the 1 HP two speed. I don't have Max-Flo data but I would recommend the Superpump or Pentair Superflo over the Max-Flo.

But again, the numbers in the table clearly show that it really isn't worth it to go with a new two speed pump. Payback is longer than the life of the pump. A VS might be worth it and if you use a heater all the time, the VS would allow you to set the flow rate to exactly 40 GPM.

Another option would be to replace the motor on your current pump with a two speed although you would still need to run on high speed for the heater.

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

I was hoping you could tell me about the hp. Aren't there recommendations based on how many gallons you have? I was told I needed a 1hp but I don't really know.

What is you overall recommendation if I avoid replacing the motor?

mas985 · Jun 20, 2012

HP is not a relevant metric to use when sizing a pump because it is not consistent across pump lines. There are 1/2 HP pumps that produce more flow than some 1 HP pumps so if you just go by the label HP, you may not get what you need. Flow rate is much more important which is why I did the analysis the way I did. I assumed one turnover per day for each pump which is what a typical pool actually requires and in some cases even less than that.

Pool techs and salesmen rarely understand pumps and hydraulics. They simply guess and usually on the high side to limit their liability. Plus most customers think that bigger is better when actually, the opposite is true.

So the short answer to your question is NO, you do not need a 1 HP pump unless you need higher flow rate than you have now. The only reason to increase the size/flow rate of the pump would be to run a waterfall, spa jets, sometimes a cleaner OR your current pump is not keeping the pool clean. But again, if you don't have that stuff and your current pump is keeping the pool clean, then it is the right size. All of the pumps listed in the table will perform adequately and are large enough for your pool, including the pump you have now.

So I will ask the question again. Is your current pump keeping the pool clean or not? Also, why are you considering changing your pump? Something must of got you looking.

ccoager · Jun 20, 2012

Yes, the pump is keeping the pool clean now. I am looking because the pump is very loud and on it's last leg. I have no idea how old it is and am being proactive about replacing it.

What pump would you recommend for me?