What is this valve doing?

[dailygenesis]

Hi everyone, this is my first post to the forum. I am new to pool ownership as of this past summer (2022). You can see the details about our setup in my signature.

Things have been going pretty well so far and I've been learning a lot by reading this forum so thanks to all of you for your insights. But for whatever reason, I just now noticed something curious about one of the valves in our flow and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on it. Please see the image below which shows the return side of the equipment with water flowing out of the heater and into this valve before splitting into two pipes -- one runs through the chlorinator and the other through the "Smartguard Soft and Clear".

This valve looks to me, though, like it is restricting the flow of water generally and I am just curious as to why it would be set this way. I haven't adjusted this valve since installation and I can't remember what the installer said, if anything, about its purpose.

Thank you for any insights you can provide.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

That valve lets you choose chlorinating the pool with the SWG or the tablet feeder.

In the pic the valve is set to flow water to both which makes little sense.

I would turn the valve so the handle points away from the Smartguard so all water goes through the SWG.

Do you have any tablets in the Smartguard?

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I wonder what the SmartGuard does? I found this mumbo-jumbo:

The device uses hydraulic harmonics to super energize pool water. The result is a slew of improvements for water quality, pool maintenance and appearance, and your overall swimming experience.

SmartGuard™ Soft & Clear

Slash brushing time, prevent cloudy water, and conquer scale, biofilm, and hard water.

www.bluehaven.com

 

[dailygenesis]

Welcome to TFP.

That valve lets you choose chlorinating the pool with the SWG or the tablet feeder.

In the pic the valve is set to flow water to both which makes little sense.

I would turn the valve so the handle points away from the Smartguard so all water goes through the SWG.

Do you have any tablets in the Smartguard?

Thank you for the reply. I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the term SWG. I looked it up and it appears to have to do with a saltwater pool, perhaps? Ours is not a saltwater pool. The "SmartGuard" in the pipe next to the chlorinator doesn't do anything related to chlorine, I don't think. So, I think the installers intended to run water through both of these pipes. My concern was just in the way the valve is positioned it appears that the "off" area is partially covering the intake, which seems it would restrict flow. Do you think that is an issue?

 

[Dirk]

Yah, it's not an SWG (Salt Water Generator or SWCG Salt Water Chlorine Generator, same thing*). It's not plugged into anything. I couldn't make anything out of the SmartGuard mumbo-jumbo either.

The valve is there to send all your filtered pool water through just your chlorinator, or just the SmartGuard, or some amount of water to each (infinitely adjustable).

Right now it looks to be sending half through the chlorinator and half through the SmartGuard. The valve itself would not be restricting flow. I couldn't say if the SmartGuard is or not, as I don't know what that is or what it does. If you ask me, it's main purpose is to "filter" some extra cash into the pool builder's pocket!

* An SWG makes chlorine out of the salt in your pool, eliminating the need for liquid chlorine additions. You don't have an SWG.

 

[dailygenesis]

I wonder what the SmartGuard does? I found this mumbo-jumbo:

SmartGuard™ Soft & Clear

Slash brushing time, prevent cloudy water, and conquer scale, biofilm, and hard water.

www.bluehaven.com

Yes I think it is a proprietary device from Blue Haven, our installer. They just included it -- it wasn't anything we specifically asked for (that I remember). I'm not sure if it actually does anything good but I will say our water is nice and clear and feels great!

 

[dailygenesis]

Yah, it's not an SWG (Salt Water Generator or SWCG Salt Water Chlorine Generator, same thing*). It's not plugged into anything. I couldn't make anything out of the mumbo-jumbo either.

The valve is there to send all your filtered pool water through just your chlorinator, or just the SmartGuard, or some amount of water to each (infinitely adjustable).

Right now it looks to be sending half through the chlorinator and half through the SmartGuard.

* An SWG makes chlorine out of the salt in your pool, eliminating the need for liquid chlorine additions. You don't have an SWG.

Thanks! I guess my concern is the position of the valve appears to not be sending half and half. If I wanted to send half and half wouldn't I point the "off" area directly to the left where the handle is sticking out 90 degrees right? The way it is now it seems the "off" area is covering part of the intake thereby restricting the flow. Or am I not thinking about this correctly?

 

[Dirk]

Can you give us a wider shot of your equipment pad. There looks to be something else there of concern, but I can't be sure without seeing the whole pad.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks! I guess my concern is the position of the valve appears to not be sending half and half. If I wanted to send half and half wouldn't I point the "off" area directly to the left where the handle is sticking out 90 degrees right? The way it is now it seems the "off" area is covering part of the intake thereby restricting the flow. Or am I not thinking about this correctly?

Three-way valves don't block the inlet. They block one or the other outlet, or some amount of both. If one is blocked 70%, the other is only blocked 30%. If it's set to 50-50, they are each blocked 50%.

That "Off" label is an odd way of indicating what's going on. Mine are like that, and they confuse me still. If you moved the "Off" directly to the left where the handle is sticking out 90 degrees right, you'd block the SmartGuard and all the flow would go to the chlorinator.

 

[Dirk]

Sorry, I may have misspoke. Generally the "Off" label sits over the port that is off. That's assuming the valve was configured correctly (they can be assembled in multiple ways, depending on their intended use). Yours may not have been put together correctly, can't tell from a pic. It does seem to be 180° turned around. They're not hard to take apart and reassemble, if you want to be sure about it, open it up and take a peek.

Or if you're still under warranty, it'd be best to let the pool builder do it.

Until you know for sure, don't turn it, because if it was put together wrong, turning it to the "wrong" position would deadhead your pump and could compromise your plumbing or your filter.

 

[ferretbone]

Just turn the valve towards the smardguard thing and shut that off. Let all the water flow through the chlorinator. That the tube you put your pool tabs in. Whoever turned that valve the way it is didn't mean to leave it that way.

 

[dailygenesis]

Can you give us a wider shot of your equipment pad. There looks to be something else there of concern, but I can't be sure without seeing the whole pad.

Is this a wide enough view? There is an ozone system mounted on the brick wall just out of frame to the top (left of the filter canister) but I think you can see everything else.

 

[dailygenesis]

Sorry, I may have misspoke. Generally the "Off" label sits over the port that is off. That's assuming the valve was configured correctly (they can be assembled in multiple ways, depending on their intended use). Yours may not have been put together correctly, can't tell from a pic. It does seem to be 180° turned around. They're not hard to take apart and reassemble, if you want to be sure about it, open it up and take a peek.

Or if you're still under warranty, it'd be best to let the pool builder do it.

Until you know for sure, don't turn it, because if it was put together wrong, turning it to the "wrong" position would deadhead your pump and could compromise your plumbing or your filter.

So, the right side port is labeled "inlet" -- but from the way the water seems to flow it seems to me the top port is actually where the water is coming in. From what you're saying I'm wondering if perhaps they assembled it internally in a way that doesn't match what it looks like on the outside. I suppose I'll need to ask the installer about it and get their take. Like I said, things seem to be working fine. It just seemed to me that this configuration would limit water flow and I wondered why it would be done this way.

 

[Jimrahbe]

DG,

I think you are correct...

It appears to me that the valve with the red arrow is restricting about half of the flow out of your heater. It makes no sense the way it is set up.

Turn the handle so that it points to the right, that should open the flow from the heater to full open and then (In theory) half the water would go through the tab feeder and the other half through whatever that smart guard is. I doubt it is very smart and I doubt it guards against anything..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

DG,

I think you are correct...

It appears to me that the valve with the red arrow is restricting about half of the flow out of your heater. It makes no sense the way it is set up.

Turn the handle so that it points to the right, that should open the flow from the heater to full open and then (In theory) half the water would go through the tab feeder and the other half through whatever that smart guard is. I doubt it is very smart and I doubt it guards against anything..

Thanks,

Jim R.

@Jimrahbe, I have two questions about DG's setup.

1. If a three-way is configured correctly, is it even possible to turn it in such a way to restrict the inlet? If that's possible with DG's valve, doesn't that indicate the valve was not put together correctly? And if that's the case, isn't there a concern that moving that handle before DG can confirm the valve is correct could compromise his equipment or plumbing?

2. The booster is drawing from a return that could convievably be empty of water, depending on the position of the return manifold's three-way. Isn't that wrong, too? I'm assuming the programing is set to not allow that, but it seems like bad practice to rely on that alone. If the programming or the three-way fail, that booster will burn up along with whatever else needs repair. Seems like it should be drawing from between the filter and the heater, not after the heater and after the chlorinator and after that three-way.

 

[Dirk]

So, the right side port is labeled "inlet" -- but from the way the water seems to flow it seems to me the top port is actually where the water is coming in. From what you're saying I'm wondering if perhaps they assembled it internally in a way that doesn't match what it looks like on the outside. I suppose I'll need to ask the installer about it and get their take. Like I said, things seem to be working fine. It just seemed to me that this configuration would limit water flow and I wondered why it would be done this way.

The port leading to the SmartGuard is definitely NOT the inlet. The inlet is the port that goes to the heater. And yes, those valves can be configured such that any port can be the inlet. So the label itself is not the concern. My concern is that the valve should be configured such that there is no way to restrict the inlet. But plumbing isn't my forte, so I've asked Jim about it. Let's see what he says.

Personally, I would not move that handle until I was dead sure that valve is doing what it's supposed to do (and it might very well be). That's why I suggested you let the builder or plumber do it. If the valve is wrong, and they blow up your filter, then it's on them. If you blow something up, they'll play dumb.

 

[dailygenesis]

2. The booster is drawing from a return that could conceivably be empty of water, depending on the position of the return manifold's three-way. Isn't that wrong, too? I'm assuming the programing is set to not allow that, but it seems like bad practice to rely on that alone. If the programming or the three-way fail, that booster will burn up along with whatever else needs repair. Seems like it should be drawing from between the filter and the heater, not after the heater and after the chlorinator and after that three-way.

This is something I also noticed, once I started getting into "freeze protect" mode. Because the installer had it configured to turn on the booster for freeze protect and that means the booster was running as the pool/spa rotated every 30 minutes. When in SPA mode, the booster was not sounding good -- I assume it was running dry for reasons you explain here. I turned off the booster in freeze protect entirely since water flows through it anyway while in pool mode.

The booster seems to work fine as long as it is only operated while the pool is running in pool mode, but I did wonder why it would be done this way.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I have no experience with that particular valve, but in general they all work the same way.

I suspect, like other valves, that you can configure it differently for different orientations of the 'input' pipe.

That said, looking at pics is not going to prove much.

The OP needs to turn the valve to different positions and see what happens.

In my opinion, if the handle is pointed directly at the tab feeder, the water from the heater would be completely shut off and the pump dead-headed. (Not something you want to do for more than a sec or two).

If the handle is pointed to the left in the pic, then the Smart whatever would be shut off.

If the handle is point up towards the heater, then the tab feeder would be shut off.

If the handle is pointed to the right then both the tab feeder and the smart thing would have flow.

I could easily be wrong, but the only way to know is for the OP to turn the handle and see what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[dailygenesis]

This is something I also noticed, once I started getting into "freeze protect" mode. Because the installer had it configured to turn on the booster for freeze protect and that means the booster was running as the pool/spa rotated every 30 minutes. When in SPA mode, the booster was not sounding good -- I assume it was running dry for reasons you explain here. I turned off the booster in freeze protect entirely since water flows through it anyway while in pool mode.

The booster seems to work fine as long as it is only operated while the pool is running in pool mode, but I did wonder why it would be done this way.

This all makes sense and aligns with what I was thinking. My concern in just going out and moving the valve around is whether or not there is some reason the installer would have needed to restrict the water flow or set it that way. Is there any reason the water flow would need to be restricted in this way? Is it possible to have too much flow through a system or something like that?

 

[Dirk]

This is something I also noticed, once I started getting into "freeze protect" mode. Because the installer had it configured to turn on the booster for freeze protect and that means the booster was running as the pool/spa rotated every 30 minutes. When in SPA mode, the booster was not sounding good -- I assume it was running dry for reasons you explain here. I turned off the booster in freeze protect entirely since water flows through it anyway while in pool mode.

The booster seems to work fine as long as it is only operated while the pool is running in pool mode, but I did wonder why it would be done this way.

I was thinking some errant failure could run that booster dry, I hadn't thought of freeze mode, but you've discovered exactly what I was warning about. The booster's supply line needs to be replumbed, to a line that always has water in it, no matter the mode.

When the plumber comes back to fix that, you can ask him about the other three-way in question, and have him prove to you that it is assembled correctly, and that it can't deadhead your pump.

Ideally (though not always possible) you want your plumbing to be fool proof. Such that you, or a kid, or a "helpful" neighbor can't mistakenly turn something that will destroy your equipment. And that includes misprogramming, or freeze mode, or any number of other scenarios. As I said, it's not always 100% possible, but where it is possible, it should be done that way.

Though I've seen plenty of plumbing schematics where it is possible to turn a few valves to deadhead a pump, I've seen plenty too that can't be set to do that. It's just a matter of using the right parts and assembling and plumbing them correctly. IMO, you've got at least one avoidable/correctable plumbing error. That leads me to believe it's possible you have more than one. They're both quick fixes, so the builder shouldn't give you any grief about redoing them.