Weird issue with Intellicenter

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
I'm new to the Intellicenter, so maybe it's just me. But after reading through the manual, I can't figure out why every-time I add a "circuit", it is also activating the aux1 relay. Literally, If I just create a new circuit and link it to nothing, activating that new circuit will trigger this relay. If I create a ne circuit to controll the lighting, it will correctly control the lighting relay, but also the aux1 relay. If it matters, the chlorine cell is connected to it. What am I missing?

Thanks
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
22,209
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

It is you for sure!!! :poke:

The first relay in the upper left is not an Aux relay, it is the Pump/Filter relay.. The SWCG's power supply is always connected to the Pump/Filter relay. The Pump/Filter relay always closes when in the Pool or Spa mode and your main pump is supposed to be running..

The next relay to the right is Aux 1, then Aux 2, etc..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Thanks for taking the time to reply Jim. It is very helpful. I verified the wiring and you are correct. I'm still a bit confused, though. For my application, I think I may need it to not do that! I have two pumps: a filter pump connected to a SWCG, and a separate feature pump connected to a waterfall that does not go through the SWCG. If I create a circuit for just the waterfall, and add the feature pump to it, I'm not sure why the SWCG would activate given that there wouldn't be any flow through it. I also noticed this behavior when I created a feature circuit for lighting (I have two lighting zones). When I activate the lighting or waterfall circuits, it is engaging that relay for the SWCG. Am I setting up the feature circuits incorrectly?
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
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LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
22,209
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Hawk,

Not sure I fully understand the problem.. :scratch: I still suspect the problem is the way Pentair programming works and not a hardware issue..

Tell us more about your pool.. I assume your main pool pump is an IntelliFlo... What kind of pump does your waterfall have?

A pic of your equipment might also help..

In theory, if the waterfall pump is a single speed pump, it should work without turning on the main pool pump. Tell me what "Circuit Function" you assigned to your Waterfall Circuit??

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Thanks again.

I have two, Intelliflo 3HP VSF pumps:

One of them is set to Address 1 and is physically connected to the filter, heat pump, and SWCG. It runs the pool/spa, depending on the way the valves are set.

The second is pump is on Address 2. It is not connected to any other equipment. It come in from the pool and returns the water to one of 3 spillways and/or a waterfall, depending on the way the valves are set. The speed depends on which of the 4 water features are running. It needs to be on MAX RPM if all the valves/spillways are open, but I can close some of them, and would thusly reduce the RPM if I were just running the waterfall.

To start the setup process, I decided to set up a feature circuit for just operating the waterfall. My thinking was that this would work independently of the filter pump as there is no need to filter or chlorinate off schedule if I just wanted to run the waterfall. So this simple feature circuit was named "Waterfall". I associated PUMP 2 to it at half RPM, and have it adjust the valves so only the waterfall feature is running. When I look at that circuit, I see no option or link in the software that would associate that circuit with turning on the SWCG relay. Yet it activates when I turn on the waterfall feature circuit.

I am very grateful for your assistance. Let me know if I can clarify anything further.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
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May 3, 2014
41,946
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When no pumps are running, are there any lights on the SWCG? Your SWCG should be wired through the Pump/Filter Relay. Only will come on if in Pool Mode (or Spa, if you have one).
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
22,209
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

You say the two pumps have different RS-485 addresses, but my guess is they both have address #1.. You can't see the actual address when looking at the automation.. You need to double check the actual pump address right at the pump... Either disconnect the com cable, or put the IntelliCenter in the Service mode.. Then look at each pump and makes sure the main pump is address #1 and the other pump is address #2.

Please let me know what you find..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
When nothing is on, the SWCG is also not on. Nor is the SWCG relay activated. However, the SWCG relay does turn on when either pump turns on. I confirmed that the pumps are each set to different addresses (both within the intellicenter, and also as indicated on the display on the pumps themselves). I had to disconnect the 2nd pump to program it to address 2.

If it helps, the "personality board" is the i10PS.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
22,209
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

Was the 2nd pump set to address #1 and you had to reprogram it to address #2??

The pump filter relay will close anytime the system is in the Pool or Spa mode and you tell the #1 pump to turn on.. It sounds like it also comes on when you turn on the #2 pump.. I am not sure if that is suppose to happen or not. :scratch:

As a test, turn off the Pool and Spa Circuits.. As an example.. if the Pool Circuit is scheduled from 8 am until 8 pm.. just remove that schedule.. The same for the Spa circuit.

Then turn on the Waterfall Circuit and see if just pump number 2 comes on. Without the Pool or Spa circuit on, the Pump/Filter relay should not energize.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Hawk,

Was the 2nd pump set to address #1 and you had to reprogram it to address #2??

The pump filter relay will close anytime the system is in the Pool or Spa mode and you tell the #1 pump to turn on.. It sounds like it also comes on when you turn on the #2 pump.. I am not sure if that is suppose to happen or not. :scratch:

As a test, turn off the Pool and Spa Circuits.. As an example.. if the Pool Circuit is scheduled from 8 am until 8 pm.. just remove that schedule.. The same for the Spa circuit.

Then turn on the Waterfall Circuit and see if just pump number 2 comes on. Without the Pool or Spa circuit on, the Pump/Filter relay should not energize.

Thanks,

Jim R.
I think there may be a wiring problem. I am not sure how each pump is receiving communication from the Intellicenter. I'm searching for a how-to on how to connect two VSF pumps to an Intellicenter, but there isn't much out their for DIY people.
 

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hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Glory Hallelujah, I think I've figured out the problem, although I don't know the solution just yet.

I opened up the panel and discovered that both of my Intelliflo VSF pumps have a 2-conductor (green and yellow wire) cable. Both of them run through the communications port on the SWCG card (the card has two ports)! The SWCG card then connects to one of the communications ports on the intellicenter board. I suspect this is why when either pump activates, it is turning on the SWCG?

So I'm guessing I need to identify the feature pump and connect it to a communications port on the intellicenter board itself, and not the SWCG card? Can anyone offer me clear guidance on this, as it is over my head.

Thank you.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Nope... I moved the Feature pump to the Intellicenter board. I deleted the pump, and then added a new pump in the software. It found it on Address 2. When I activate the Waterfall circuit, the system is still turning on the SWCG relay. I can't imagine why it would do that. I'm at a loss.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
22,209
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

There is only one com port, but the SWCG card just gives you a place to connect to the same com port.

As you found out the SWCG card has nothing to do with the pumps..

The IntelliCenter sends a command over the RS-485 bus to a specific address.. That is why your two pumps must have two different addresses.. Address #1 and Address #2. If both pumps have the same address (Inside the pump, you can NOT see the address in the IntelliCenter) then both will get the same commands all the time.

When the waterfall comes on, check to see if the Pool or Spa mode is on..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Thank you again. That's good info. I just checked and I'm not sure I know the answer to your question. Here's what happened when I turned on the waterfall feature...

When I turned on the waterfall circuit, the main screen (that shows the 4 main icons) showed a "1" over "features" indicating that the one "waterfall" feature was in fact on.

But it also displayed a green icon showing the temperature of the "pool" in the top of the "pool" icon. It wasn't doing this when the feature is off. So I think you are on to something... however, when I touched the "pool" icon, it took me to the pool body screen where the virtual "pool" switch was off. So was it on or off, I don't know. It looks like it thought it was on, but the virtual switch was in the off position. Any thoughts on that?
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
22,209
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

I have an EasyTouch, so am not too familiar with your screens.. Let's see if @MyAZPool has an idea as to what is going on..

My guess is that you have your waterfall set up in a macro of some kind, that is causing the problem..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
Hmmm... this can't be right. But I don't know what's wrong. When I set up "circuits" I have two choices: "Aux" and "Feature".

The "Aux" represents the relays, so that isn't the right approach. So I selected the option to add a new "Feature Circuit" which I think is sort of like a macro.

But I just created the new "Feature Circuit" That's it. I did nothing else to it and set up no equipment or relays under it. It's called "Feature 1". When I turn on "Feature 1", it should do absolutely nothing. But instead, it turns on the "Pool Relay" which activates the SWCG. It looks like the intellicenter is turning on the pool relay anytime any feature circuit is turned on. Even if it is lights... or in this case, nothing.
 

MyAZPool

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Jul 3, 2018
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@hawkmoon7
1. You are correct about AUX Circuits. They directly control the power relays.

2. You are incorrect about Feature Circuits. They are NOT macros. Feature Circuits typically control pump speeds and or flows (in the case of VSF or VF pumps) AND valve actuators.
However, after you create a Feature Circuit (ADD FEATURE CIRCUIT) in the SETTINGS menu, you then must navigate over to the OTHER EQUIPMENT > VALVES or PUMPS and "associate" that Feature Circuit that you created with the valve actuator or the pump speed/flow (as applicable).

3. Circuit Groups are macros. Here is where you can imbed several AUX or Feature Circuits in one "group". When that "group" is activated manually or via a schedule, then all of the AUX and Feature Circuits imbedded in that group will be activated. When the group is inactivated manually or via a schedule, then those AUX and Feature Circuits are deactivated.

Remember, every Feature Circuit (purple color if using the web-client), MUST be associated with something (speed/flow or valve actuator).

2021-03-06_15-48-36.jpg 2021-03-06_15-49-12.jpg

I created a powerpoint/video presentation that might help you sort this out. You're not the first to be confused by Pentair's lack of good documentation, that's for sure. ;)

Here is that link and feel free to ask any questions.
r.

 
Last edited:

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
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Jul 7, 2014
22,209
Bedford, TX
Hawk,

When you set up a circuit there are three parts.. Circuit, Circuit Name, and Circuit Function

Circuit is "Feature 1"..
Circuit Name is "Waterfall".. What you call Feature 1 so you can remember what it does.
Circuit Function is only used if you want something special done.. Should be generic.. What do you have it set to???

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

hawkmoon7

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2020
50
Florida
MyAZPool, I can't thank you enough. I went through all of that info (a few times) and it really helped me synthesize the framework of the Intellicenter.

Jim, That was the problem! The feature circuit was set to "spillway" and even though it had no actions associated with it, when it was turned on, it also turned on the pool's SWCG generator relay. Setting it to "Generic" allows me to activate the feature circuit without turning on the pool relay, and consequently, the SWCG.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me.
 

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