Waterfall flow issues

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
Need help solving a flow issue. My spa flows into my pool during normal operation. The waterfall is nice, but I can’t seem to get enough flow to make it work correctly. The water flows well in the middle, but has little umph on the sides and simply trickles over and runs down the wall. It is starting to erode it and mineral deposits are forming. I’ve attached a photo to show this, though I’m not sure how evident it is.

I thought changing the sand in my filter would restore the flow I needed, but it had no effect.

What are my options for getting more flow so the waterfall looks right and doesn’t erode the wall behind it?

100501
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

Well, the best thing to do would be to shut off the constant overflow all together and use your EasyTouch to only run it twice a day for 30 minutes each time.. A constant overflow will cause your pH to constantly increase..

But, assuming you are in love with the overflow, and don't care about ph increase, then you could do one of three things..

1. Assuming you have a make up valve that sends water to your spa, you could just adjust the flow there...

2. You could set up the spillway function, which basically sucks water from the pool and sends to all back to the spa. With a 2 HP single speed pump, this should provide a lot of water. The down side is then you would not have any water to your pool returns.. But you could just use this when you want to run the spillover.

3. A third option would be to install an IntelliFlo VS pump so that your EasyTouch could control the amount of spillover.

If you can post some pics of your equipment pad showing all your valves, we can get you pointed in the right direction.

The real problem is not the amount of water flow, but construction of the spillway. It should have a 1/4" x 1/4" slot on the underside of the stone, about 1/4" back from the front edge. This forms a drip edge and prevents water from "sticking" to the underside of the spillway and then wrapping around and coming down on the wall under the spillway.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
100505

Thanks Jim!

Pad image attached. Backwash line broke off during sand replacement, previous owner glued threads in, so have to get creative there....

I do love the waterfall and would like to keep it. I have automatic valves to turn from spa to pool mode. Which one should I adjust and which way?

As for the drip edge, I’m handy with an angle grinder. I could get in there and make a drip edge I think!
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

I like the angle grinder idea, but you might want to turn the overflow off first... :mrgreen:

Right below your Automation Return valve is a check valve.. I can't tell for sure in the pic, but there is often a 2-way Jandy valve in the line to regulate the amount of water flowing to the spa when in the Pool mode.. If that line has no valve, then anytime you are in the Pool mode a lot of water should be going to the Spa..

I suggest that you set up the spillway function and see what the water flow looks like when it is on.. You can simulate it first by simply moving the on/off/on toggle on the Return actuator to the "other" on position... This should mean the pump will suck water from the pool and send it all back to the spa.. See what that looks like and then decide what you want to do.

Make sure your return the actuator toggle back to its original position.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
The only valve on the side where the check valve is would be the valve with the automatic turner on it just above the check valve. I manually moved it to halfway and the flow is great. See pic.

Is it ok to adjust my automatic valve so that in pool mode it leave the valve halfway like this and then shuts off the pool completely when I turn it to spa mode?

This seems like a good solution until I need a new pump if so.

100572
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

It is your pool, so you can do anything you like.. :mrgreen:

I suspect that when you shut the pump off, when in the position in the pic, the water will drain down to the jets in your spa... This is because, whoever plumbed your equipment did not install a check valve in the line going to the Spa jets..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
Ha! That was dumb of me not to realize!

So I need a way to throttle the amount going to the pool versus the spa. Where should that valve be placed in the image above? I may be able to install one.

My guess is where I’ve marked in this image, but we have already established my brain isn’t fully functional this morning.
100581
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
911
Marrietta Ga
I run 80% of my return to the spa and the rest to the pool cleaner and keep the returns to the pool barely cracked open. I love the waterfall and our VS speed pump runs 24 hours a day at 2300 rpm's
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

Here is the problem and I am not sure why... :scratch:

The position where you marked is exactly where you would normally place a valve to control the spillover... But... without a valve, the spillover should be the max it is ever going to be.. You can't "throttle" more water only make it less...

I am assuming the spillover never worked any better than it does now... If it used to work and now does not, that is more of filter dirty issue or overall flow issue..

The place to put a manual valve would be to replace the 'T' in the pool side pipe (bottom left in your pic) with a three way valve.. This would allow you to reduce the water going to the pool returns and divert the rest of the water to go through the check valve to the spa..

The easiest fix would be to just set up the spillway function in your EasyTouch and use it when you want the spillover to run.. Keep in mind that this would turn off the pool returns...

Did you try moving the on/off/on toggle on the Return actuator, just to see what it would look like??

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
@Jimrahbe maybe I’m not understanding your instructions regarding the toggle. I turned the auto valve switch the on in up (instead of down) direction and it sent all of the water to my spa and the flow was incredible. But, as you said, nothing for the pool. When I stop it halfway it gives decent flow to both the pool and spa, but that would allow the spa to drain when off.

Perhaps I just need to go with a stronger pump?
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

Moving the toggle was just to show you what the water would look like if you set up the spillway mode on your EasyTouch. You would not want to use the toggle switch all the time.

I guess your options are ..

1. Do nothing and live with what you have.
2. Replace the "T" fitting with a 3-way valve that would allow you to send more water to your spa when in the pool mode, but still allow some water to go to the pool. This way you could adjust the amount of flow you wanted.
3. Set up the spillway function and only use it when around the pool.. Maybe schedule it for X hours a day.. and schedule the normal pool flow Y hours a day.
4. Buy a big VS pump to move more water.. But this will drive your electrical bill up.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
I’ve scratched my head on this a bit. I can’t figure out how to circulate the pool without the spillway. There is only one valve on the return side. Either it is sending to the pool with a check valve allowing flow into the spa as well or it is sending to the spa only with the check valve preventing flow into the pool. Am I missing something?

I think one issue is that the check valve allowing return to the spa just doesn’t allow enough, impeding my water flow to the spa and giving me a bad waterfall.

No matter what, I need to get a drip edge as my wall behind the spillway is already calcified and eroding. My wife isn’t keen about me getting to it with an angle grinder. I’ve seen some posts about a bead of silicone. Anyone have any tips on how best to go that route? That will likely be wife approved. Otherwise I have to wait for more distance between me just doing it and mother’s day ;-)
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

I agree that the only way to chlorinate the spa is to use the spillway..

With the spillway you have two choices... Use the make up pipe (the one with the check valve) which will make your spa spillover all the time you are in the pool mode, or use the spillover function in your automation that only runs the spillover when you turn it on or when you schedule it.

If you added a three way valve, in place of the "T" like posted above, you could increase the amount of spillover by reducing the water going back to the pool.

You cannot remove the check valve, because the spa will drain back into the pool when the pump is off.

Good luck with your project,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
I guess I’m confused on the spillway function in my automation. I’m not seeing anything related to that. I’m also not seeing how the automation could possible circulate the pool without using the spillway. Sorry for being dense on this one @Jimrahbe !
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
12,801
Northern NJ
I’ve scratched my head on this a bit. I can’t figure out how to circulate the pool without the spillway. There is only one valve on the return side. Either it is sending to the pool with a check valve allowing flow into the spa as well or it is sending to the spa only with the check valve preventing flow into the pool. Am I missing something?
You need to do both ... install a Jandy valve to turn off the flow in the crossover pipe and enable the Spillover function in ET. Then you have 3 modes of circulation:

- Pool - pull water from pool and return to pool
- Spa - pull water from spa and return to spa
- Spillover - pull water from pool and return to spa which spillover over to pool

Someday with the new Intellicenter and Intellivalves you would be able to automatically adjust the valve to multiple positions and have the return valve open half and half the way you liked it as well as fully to Pool or Spa.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
The automation sets the Intake valve to suck water from the pool and then sets the Return valve to send water to the spa..

Do you have ScreenLogic??

Jim R.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,747
Bedford, TX
J,

You can just do this if you want to set up the SpillWay option on your EasyTouch...

Menu, Setting, Circuit Names.. Scroll down to a Feature that is not used and change it to "Spillway" then menu, menu to save.

I forgot.. you need to go to Circuit Functions and find the "Spillway" circuit and set the Function to Spillway...

You can test it by going to Menu, Feature Circuits, and select Spillway... it should show ON and (assuming you are in the Pool mode) the Return valve will move 180 degrees to the Spa mode.

You can turn it off and then schedule "Spillway" to come on twice a day for 30 minutes.. (two schedules)..

You may want to go to your pump speed menu and assign a speed to the "Spillway" circuit...

(Set up spillway and test it first... and let me know if you have any problems..)
Jim R.