VSP & Filter Advice For AGP with CircuPool SJ/RJ-20 SWG

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Any 240V 20A GFCI CB will do. You don’t need anything fancy for a 2 speed pump.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
Any 240V 20A GFCI CB will do. You don’t need anything fancy for a 2 speed pump.

Got it. Thank you.

Any thoughts on initial pool timer settings? Also, i hope you're ready for a real fun question.

In the last half hour there has been plans made for me to travel the week that this pool is installed or shortly there after. Is there a guide or anything I can look at to determine what i need to do to "Open" the pool once it's setup and then leave it running for a week, even with the pump on 24/7, before i'm back home. I know there is the salt that needs to be added and chemistry but suddenly this plan is getting very tight on time.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You download PoolMath yet and get the app setup?

You can run your pump from 3 hours a day to 24 hours a day depending on what is the minimum time to generate 3 ppm of chlorine with your RJ45 running at 100%. From there the more you run the pump the lower the % need to be. Running the pump for 12 hours or so during daylight and letting the SWG maintain the chlorine level is a good starting point.

Use Effects of Adding in PoolMath to determine the SWG % for a given pump runtime to generate 3 ppm.

Get your pool and equipment setup and running. Fill pool. Add 60 ppm of stabilizer hanging in some socks by the returns. Add 5 ppm of liquid chorine. Add 3000 ppm of salt and brush it around the pool to dissolve. You can do all that in the first hour after the pool is filled and the pump is running. Be checking things for leaks. Run your pump for 24 hours straight while CYA and salt are dissolving.

Leave your SWG off while adding salt and if possible for 24 hours after. Then turn on SWG, set %, and it should begin generating chlorine.

If all goes well you can leave pool at that point with the SWG taking care of daily chlorination. Your FC level will probably rise over the week and you can adjust it and other chemicals when you return.

What is the pH, TA & CH of the fill water you will be using?
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
You download PoolMath yet and get the app setup?

You can run your pump from 3 hours a day to 24 hours a day depending on what is the minimum time to generate 3 ppm of chlorine with your RJ45 running at 100%. From there the more you run the pump the lower the % need to be. Running the pump for 12 hours or so during daylight and letting the SWG maintain the chlorine level is a good starting point.

Use Effects of Adding in PoolMath to determine the SWG % for a given pump runtime to generate 3 ppm.

Get your pool and equipment setup and running. Fill pool. Add 60 ppm of stabilizer hanging in some socks by the returns. Add 5 ppm of liquid chorine. Add 3000 ppm of salt and brush it around the pool to dissolve. You can do all that in the first hour after the pool is filled and the pump is running. Be checking things for leaks. Run your pump for 24 hours straight while CYA and salt are dissolving.

Leave your SWG off while adding salt and if possible for 24 hours after. Then turn on SWG, set %, and it should begin generating chlorine.

If all goes well you can leave pool at that point with the SWG taking care of daily chlorination. Your FC level will probably rise over the week and you can adjust it and other chemicals when you return.

What is the pH, TA & CH of the fill water you will be using?

I just got the PoolMath app and found the online calculator. Is there a recommended stabilizer brand? I'll calculate the numbers and start obtaining materials (salt, bleach, stabilizer, test kit) this week.

I need to get the suggested test kit in the mail, which should happen this week and i'll be able to provide TA & CH. I can get a rough estimation of the pH today as well with an old test kit or the water report from the town which is reporting it at 8.2 at the water plans for last week. All of the other numbers require a test kit as the weekly/yearly test does not show them. I'm happy to provide these via PM if desired.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Any stabilizer that says 100% Cyanuric Acid is fine. It is a commodity.

With a fill water pH of 8.2 get a gallon of 31% muriatic acid.

 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
Any stabilizer that says 100% Cyanuric Acid is fine. It is a commodity.

With a fill water pH of 8.2 get a gallon of 31% muriatic acid.


@ajw22 thank you for your help! I was able to get the pump, filter and SWG ordered today. I went with
Sta-Rite SuperMax VSP 343001
Pentair RP 200 Canister
CircuPool RJ45+
Intermatic PE25300

I have the electrician stopping by tomorrow at 730am to plan the electrical run. Next is getting tracking numbers and the fun can start. Any thoughts on pump location? I put flags in the ground with a 1 foot boarder around the pool perimeter and took this picture tonight. My plan is to bring power off of the underside of the deck at or around P and then put the pump/filter in the region of the box but no closer than 5' to the pool. Does that sound okay? Do you know if the pump has a plug on it or if it's directly wired? I quickly looked just now and I don't see it specified. 20200601_181921.jpg
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Pump is directly wired, no plug.

Put the pump/filter/timer at least 6 feet away from the pool.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
Pump is directly wired, no plug.

Put the pump/filter/timer at least 6 feet away from the pool.

Timer/load center will be in the basement.
Plugs, filter and pump will be >6 feet from the pool. Thank you for your help.

In regards to chlorine. Should i be using Sodium Hypochlorite? Is there any reason to use Cal-Hypo? I plan to take a water sample to the pool store tomorrow to get sampled to get a baseline and get those into poolmath
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Timer/load center in the basement does not meet the requirements for a maintenance disconnect for the pump.

Dont bother setting foot in a pool store. Use your TF-100 when you get it.

Use liquid chlorine- Sodium Hypochlorite not cal-hypo m
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
Timer/load center in the basement does not meet the requirements for a maintenance disconnect for the pump.

Dont bother setting foot in a pool store. Use your TF-100 when you get it.

Use liquid chlorine- Sodium Hypochlorite not cal-hypo m
The building inspector said that using the CB in the basement, next to a window with direct line of sight would pass. I'll ask the electrician tomorrow and verify with the inspector to be sure i dont run afoul.

Is powder Sodium Hypochlorite effictive as well? I've been seeing this while looking at various stores for liquid chlorine.
 

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ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Is powder Sodium Hypochlorite effictive as well? .

Nope. Chlorine is a gas and it needs a solid to bind to. Any solid chlorine contains either CYA or Calcium.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
Install bullet #7) The pump should be permanently connected to either a circuit breaker, 2-pole timer or 2-pole relay. If AC power is supplied by a GFCI circuit breaker, use a dedicated circuit breaker that has no other electrical loads.

Does this mean i shouldnt or cant wire it where the VSP is on the line side and the SWG is on the load side of a CB as Jim specified? I'm glad to tag him and ask for clarification. Also 8 gauge bonding wire? Stout, but i'll order it.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It’s ok to connect SWG on pump GFCI CB.

Bonding wire is required to be solid bare 8 gauge copper wire.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
It’s ok to connect SWG on pump GFCI CB.

Bonding wire is required to be solid bare 8 gauge copper wire.
Great, that saves a bunch on the CB cost.

Solid, bare 8 gauge it is then. I believe Lowes has it by the foot or the electrician has this he said.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
I've received everything with the exception of the surge protector and the actual pool. I expect to receive the surge protector tomorrow and a call from the pool shipper to schedule delivery for tuesday.

The electrician is going to come tuesday and has offered to trench as well which is a huge advantage. I've cleared a spot and all looks well. But i have a few questions about how to wire stuff:
1) The suggestion, and possible code requirement, is a twist lock power cord for the pump. The electrician was going to wire two 240v outlets off of one CB. My worry with the PE25300 is that I want to use it to control the SWG timing. If both outlets are on one CB, and the intermatic works off of switching that Circuit, wont that be a conflict? It was mentioned previously the pump gets continuous voltage and the controller onboard is what controls the running vs the panel controlling the pump.

2) Will the SWG have the ability to retain the settings when the timer shuts the circuit down? Is there an optimal percentage to run a SWG? The TFP SWG Calculator said 55% for 4 hours or so. (if i recall)

3) Pump wiring - 120 or 240? I've read 240 is less load. Is there a consensus among the forum?

4) Panel - The current suggestion is to place it outside. I was thinking inside, but the bonding wire needs to go all the way out vs using UF wire and bonding at the panel outside. I dont know how i can make the panel removable for the winter which is also why i wanted it inside. The electrician said we can do anything but as we know anything just means added costs. I want to do it right, one time. My two thoughts are: 1) Panel outside. 2) Panel inside, bigger conduit, possibly two 240v circuits and a 120v. Thoughts? Suggestions? Press F for thoughts and prayers?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
24,960
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The electrician is going to come tuesday and has offered to trench as well which is a huge advantage. I've cleared a spot and all looks well. But i have a few questions about how to wire stuff:
1) The suggestion, and possible code requirement, is a twist lock power cord for the pump. The electrician was going to wire two 240v outlets off of one CB. My worry with the PE25300 is that I want to use it to control the SWG timing. If both outlets are on one CB, and the intermatic works off of switching that Circuit, wont that be a conflict? It was mentioned previously the pump gets continuous voltage and the controller onboard is what controls the running vs the panel controlling the pump.

I don't know why you want or need outlets but they are just connections in the wire run. The Intermatic times does not care how the wire connection is run between it and the loads it is powering.

2) Will the SWG have the ability to retain the settings when the timer shuts the circuit down?

Yes. No problem. It is made to be powered off.



Is there an optimal percentage to run a SWG? The TFP SWG Calculator said 55% for 4 hours or so. (if i recall)

YOu need to dial in the SWB % for your pools environment, FC needs, and pump runtime. SWG calculators just give you a reasonable starting point.

3) Pump wiring - 120 or 240? I've read 240 is less load. Is there a consensus among the forum?

Does not make any difference. It is the same amount of electrons consumed.

4) Panel - The current suggestion is to place it outside. I was thinking inside, but the bonding wire needs to go all the way out vs using UF wire and bonding at the panel outside. I dont know how i can make the panel removable for the winter which is also why i wanted it inside. The electrician said we can do anything but as we know anything just means added costs. I want to do it right, one time. My two thoughts are: 1) Panel outside. 2) Panel inside, bigger conduit, possibly two 240v circuits and a 120v. Thoughts? Suggestions? Press F for thoughts and prayers?

All of my pool equipment and panels have stayed outside for 30 years. Just make sure things are properly weather proofed and rat proofed. Disconnecting and reconnecting stuff every year creates its own set of problems.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
I'm told the reason for the twist lock at the pool outside is because it's required by local code. I spoke with a neighbor who just had a pool installed this past winter and he confirmed. There also needs to be a 120v outlet near the pool as a convenience outlet per code. I agree it's odd. The inspector today confirmed that my power tap was going to be reasonably close to the pool and that it was a twist lock. Looks like two CBs it is.

The biggest plus i can think of is i can remove it in the winter which a lot of my neighbors do with their pump and filter, but you're close to me and a similar climate so your advice (as always) is noted.

I have ordered the test kit and i'll use it to monitor my levels. I just wanted to be sure the SWG didnt need to run at 100% for some unknown reason.
 

JoePoolOrMine

Active member
May 25, 2020
27
SE CT
The trench has been dug and we've completely relocated where it will be placed. It will now be just out of frame in the top right of the previous photo. I dug the hole and placed the post in cement tonight. My electrician is coming in the AM to wire everything up and run the conduit. I expect to run 1 240 circuit for the VSP and 1 120v circuit for the SWG. I'm debating a separate 120v circuit for the pool light and future robot/convenience outlet which is required by code. Although if i run the SWG on 120 then i can add 2 pairs of outlets on one circuit. Although that'd prevent me from having independent control of anything i connect to that circuit. I'm thinking a separate is better.
 

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